Quote: Actually the question no one will answer is "What constitutes victory in this war?" People keep telling me that we have to win this Iraq war. Well, how exactly do we do that? The security is worse than it was two years ago. Over 100 parties are running in the election and pigs will fly before a democracy happens over there. How long do we hang around getting killed? What specifically are we supposed accomplish, so we can declare victory and get the hell out? ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- elections, elections, elections................................mean victory in this war. How long do we hang around? How long are we going to be in Korea, Germany, Bosnia? Theres no need to think we can bring all troops home since after every war or occupation we've been in we've had troops there for years. I believe once elections are held in Iraq that the attacks will slowly calm down like they did in Afghanistan but its our own fault the way things are in Iraq because we didn't do a good job keeping the terrorists out by securing the borders. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I saw the illegal weapons and terrorist camps in Iraq myself on the news, thats all I have to say about your paragraph about illegal weapons. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote: Whoa. You bash the UN at every opportunity and now you are trying to say that we enforced UN sanctions by invading Iraq? Uh, Sourdough . . . We did not get UN sanction to Invade Iraq. The UN wanted to give the sanctions more time, but we ignored them and unilaterial invaded Iraq. It is pretty lame to now say that we were doing it for the UN. Bullchit. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Say what U will, I don't make policy or support everything we do for certain reasons that are giving. I do bash the UN because they worthless and as crooked as the day is long. The UN wanted to give Sanctions more time because Annon, his son, France and Germany were in bed with Saddam, behind our backs. Do you think the UN would ever have agreed to let us go in? Don't kid yourself. WE because of George W. Bush wanted the UN sanctions in Iraq to mean something so when Saddam didn't comply we went in, The UN signed off on it then backed down if I remember correctly, thats what the last resolution was about, action. Just because George Bush wanted to look good in front of the world because being president of the USA has to go to the UN first, doesn' t mean I give a chit about that. I believe in America's sovernty, don't care about the rest of the world or UN. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- These countries never got along, true but why did Saddam send his Air Force to other countries then, sorry, its a pattern and could be possble to send weapons over there. Say what you will about wmd's, its too early to know for sure whether they had them or not. Only 20 years down the road from now when history is written will we know the truth. I don't understand how someone can make judgements like these in the short term unless they just are against Bush and Rumsfeld and wanted Kerry to win. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote: Hilarious. Sure. There has been no vote yet, you know. Say, would that constitute victory? We can go home then because that is what we came for? We had to capture six artillery shells from a bad man, so we have invaded a country that did not attack us and killed thousands of its citizens (who now despise us) for reasons that turned out to be bogus. All this at the cost of 10,000 American casualties, an unprecedented collapse of international support for America, and over 200 billion (and counting) wasted American dollars? Hilarious. Just hilarious -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Nope we went into Iraq as far as I'm concerned because of the terrorist camps there, I don't care what anyone says or thinks. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Say what U will, the electorite in 2008 won't be kind to the Democrats because they still don't understand why they lost in 2004. They DON'T get it! Your so sure history will be unkind to George Bush and the War in Iraq just because you oppose it and this president. Your making bold statements in this forum unlike anyone else and only history will tell if you have egg on your face or not. Have to go, Mom is here for Christmas and holidays. Merry Christmas everyone...
Rumsfeld didn't do a good job, old chum. These elections will not stop the insurrection. You are more confused than usual, Sourdough. America's soveriegnty has never been in question. We once led the world in such matters. We led a UN-backed war in Korea, Kuwait, Bosnia, and Kosovo. That the UN failed to follow us into disasterous misadventures like Vietnam, Lebanon, and Iraq should tell us something. Sometimes we are making a mistake by engaging in a crusade without broad support. What terrorist camps. They didn't exist. I've pointed this out to you before. You say you don't care what anyone thinks and you don't care about facts and figures either, apparently. Come on. You must admit that Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11 and was not in league with al Qaida. Even the Bush administration admits this. I didn't start this thread. You did and you asked for comment. If you don't want to hear dissent, you shouldn't be living in America. Plenty of people make bold statements around here. I try to back mine up with explanations and evidence, unlike many who just toss off grand pronouncements in Voice-of-God fashion without explanations of their position or any supporting documentation. This is a forum for discussion and if you make weak arguments, someone is going to shoot them down. 56 percent of the population (and growing) now think the Iraq war is going badly. I predict that by 2008 it will be 90 percent and you will be among them. I've read all of your posts here Sourdough and I know you are reasonable and not a ultraconservative hardliner. But you are confusing your strong patriotism with support of this president and his failed Iraq policies. My loyalty is to America, not to the guy currently in charge, especially when he is destroying America credibility, creating an unprecedented National Debt, and has enmired us in another Vietnam when his father freed us of that in his conduct of a proper war. All of our allies, some of our enemies and the UN were all behind us in 1991. We used overwhelming force to win easily, and we did not attempt to occupy a bitterly hostile country for no apparent gain. Merry Christmas! See you on the flip side.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,84291,00.html http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/special/iraq/1854928 http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/europe/06/18/russia.warning/ http://cshink.com/cyanide_salt_block_found.htm http://www.cfr.org/background/background_iraq_ties.php So, were there terrorists In Iraq? the answer is yes and I rest my case.
Rumsfeld has been in Washington for 4 years, The Senators in Congress Kerry included have been there for how long? The point is Rumsfeld gets the blame for the military cuts made during previous administrations, previous administrations let their guards down to push their agendas. We are now paying for the 90's from everything that was good back then and not responding to threats. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote: You are more confused than usual, Sourdough. America's soveriegnty has never been in question. We once led the world in such matters. We led a UN-backed war in Korea, Kuwait, Bosnia, and Kosovo. That the UN failed to follow us into disasterous misadventures like Vietnam, Lebanon, and Iraq should tell us something. Sometimes we are making a mistake by engaging in a crusade without broad support. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- I'm not confused at all, you make it sound like we can't win a war without the UN backing us up? Sorry, because the UN failed to back us up doesn't mean we lost or things went badly there, LBJ and McNamara is the reason we had our problems in Vietnam. I said I believe in American Soveriegnty and Nato, I don't believe in the UN that is all. The UN is worthless and spineless and crooked as the day is long. It worries me that some Democrats might get elected president and give up our Soveriegnty to be friends with the world and the UN. I think John Kerry might've been one of those, the reason I say this is he would never admit or say anything bad about the UN, our presidents should be real careful when dealing with them in the future. Why doesn't the other side admit things about the UN and oil for food scandal? --------------------------------------------------------------------------- You say the terrorist camps didn't exist? I watched the war unfold on the news in front of my eyes and saw what they said were terrorist camps, I probably have it on vhs tapes since I recorded a lot of the coverage for historical reasons, I will have to review them sometime in the future. I know what I saw and was reported! I never said anything about Al- Quada and Iraq and 9/11 in my last post although I don't really know if their connected but they did have some Al-Quada in Iraq. See links above about Terrorists and Saddams intentions..... Merry Christmas, I may not be back for a little while
