Why Islam is disrespected.

It's funny that you say 'punishing' the rich, yet you don't consider destitute Americans as 'poor'. How does that work?

I understand what you're saying about capitalism. It's what I was hinting at with the talk about GDP. But what I think you may have overlooked is this: While poverty-stricken people over here may be 'rich' over 'there', that is only with respect to the economic conditions over 'there'. In other words, they might be able to go and buy all these nice things over 'there'. But, they're still poor as dirt over here.

 

I am aware of it because my mother in law ,who lives here, works for the State in the SSI dept. and she is a dyed in the wool Democrat.
My sister and her husband are federal prosecutors in shelby county, TN, that's Memphis.
Before that, My sister was a juvenile probation officer for the state of Ms.
While I don't have "numbers" to produce myself. I do consider myself a pretty good judge of trends. Now maybe that's just the mid south.... but not according to What my mother in law hears from other states SSI administrators. There isnt a STUDY out there to point to, because they don't want to see those numbers, it's politically incorrect. Sometimes the "best" indicators are your eyes, your ears, and the people who have experience and work in the administration of the system every day.
I find it amzing that you and red are so niave. It's not a "few" who are working the system Red, it's MOST and what you don;t seem to graps is that the many are taking what could be used to provide for the LEGITIMATE cases that fly under the radar. and they are many......

It's been suggested at some state SSI meetings that if they could somehoe eliminate the people who "lie" to beat the system, there'd be more than enough to help those who really need it. As it is local SSI office's budgets are stretched to the max.

Also, one last thing, for Chaos, dont insinuate I post BS like you do, just because you do. It might be my opinion but on something like this...read it write it down..... then take it to the bank son. I know what I'm talking about, and it's a problem. whether you chose to ignore it or not. Your naivety and insultful ignorance is your problem not mine. The issues with SSI are there regardless.
good day.

 

if you really cared about the well-being of humanity, your main project should be the spread of democracy and capitalism. all your tax dollars that go to the war are helping humanity far far more than just throwing money at poor americans.

i am not justifying the war because it helps iraqis, that is just a bonus in my opinion. but you, who claim to care about people (i dont really care if the majority of people live or die) should support bush and the war more than i do. giving losers food stamps feeds them right now, but freeing entire countries gives people the freedom they need to prosper for generations.

if you were truly utilitarian, you would want the greatest aggregate amount of utilty for humanity. surely you agree that in the long term, the spread of freedom and democracy does just that.

 

What I'm saying is that it's very easy for you to sit there in your ivory tower, w/ your two engineering degrees (and I'm in the business, so I have a general idea of what you make, salary-wise) and be sanctimonious about "the poor" in this country, when you've never even seen real poverty. The poverty-stricken in Honduras would kill to have it as good as "the poor" in this country have it.

 

Fair enough, GMAN. But that still does not make the poor in this country any more well-off compared to our domestic conditions.

Ok, kiddo, there is ONE person in this world who has the right to call me 'son', and it sure as hell ain't you. Second of all, I want you to clearly indicate what I posted that was 'BS'. I don't believe that I was the one trying to make factual claims about an entire group of people (that was you, remember?). All I did was call into question the basis of your claims, not exactly something that can be dismissed as bullsh!t. You get bent out of shape when you see me decimating or challenging your futile claims, so you resort to attacking my entries as a whole. That will never win you any arguments. You may not accept advice from me, but if you have future plans to engage in arguments, don't get mad when your opponet invokes substantiation. It's a pretty basic element of arguing. And if you're going to ignore it to simple illustrate a feeble point, be prepared to get destroyed.

That's great that you know whomever working in whatever agency in whatever state. All that means is that all you hear are the gripes and insufficiencies of such a system. There aint a damn system out there that aint riddled with shortcomings and imperfections. And I don't think I've ever denied that our welfare system is an exception. But you're trying to characterize everyone that recieve welfare based on the relatively few complaints you heard from certain relatives. You've never been in a position to really need help, thanks to your fortunate upbrining. So it's impossible for your short-sighted mind to fully assess exactly what an undesirable condition that is. For every person that you hear your maw-in-law bitching about, there are probably 10 or so people/families out there who don't take advantage of it. You're so quick to call me 'naive', yet you fail to comprehend the most basic concept that negatives always receieve the most focus. The fact remains, you've had very little exposure first-hand to what most poverty-stricken families go through on a day-to-day basis. Your insinuation that the majority of recipients chooses to live like that is asinine (which pretty much makes it consistent with most of your other claims).

You're always one of the people on here going on and on about what a great Christian you are. Now, I don't claim to be half as 'devout' as you, but I do know Christ always preached almsgiving for the poor. Just food for thought. I'm sure you'll find a way to dismiss this one just to fit your agenda while you strictly adhere to others to do the same.

Perhaps, if I had even so much as claimed to be a 'true' utilitarian (which I have NOT), I might adopt that philosophy. But even if i was, there isn't much evidence that shows that the war is benefitting anyone more than its hurting them.

Yes, in a perfect world, spreading 'freedom and democracy' would be a noble cause. However, and I'm getting tired of repeating this, attempting to do so in the past has resulted in tragic failure and perpetuated far more bad than good. So even if i WAS a 'true' utilitarian, based on historical evidence, trying to force our system of government on other countries would have proven to be the wrong course of action.

 

Absolutely on point as always, red.

 

Just a point of clarification in this remarkably off-post discussion. Contained Chaos' ideas on this subject are not generally the views of the Libertarian Party.

 

Although I stongly agree with the idealogy behind it, I believe that it puts too much faith in the generosity of man, of which I have become increasingly skeptical. Although the dollar-for-dollar tax break proposition is somewhat intruiging, I don't think that it would provide adequate funding for enough people. However, I strongly support the ideal to reform education, a plan of action which could address the problem of welfare from its source. And they're definitely onto something with the idea of welfare as a temporary necessity.