Why I will never support a so-called "Palestinian" state

This is a pretty tough topic to debate for either side.....there are so many abuses from both sides it would be pretty tricky to come up with a clearly responsible party for the mess that is the Middle East.

However, I would like to point out that I do agree with Martin on several things politically and at the same time I think religiously he is way off the mark. First of all, the entire Western Civilization is founded on Christian principles and you can make a very strong argument that Chrisitianity is responsible in a large degree for the incredilble success that the West has achieved. But that is too much to deal with here.

The thing I would like to point out here is I cannot understand this idea that America is suddenly the champion of democracy all over the world. When the hell did that start? Thiscountry was founded on the idea of OUR FREEDOM, not everyone else's. When we won the Revolutionary War we didn't draw up plans to free the English....Once we kicked them out, fine..peace treaty, period. No Founding Father in his right mind would have said we should go halfway across the world to "liberate" the Iraqis or fight for Muslim women who are oppressed. We fought the Japanese because they attacked us, not because we couldn't stand for them to have an Emperor. The point is that WE are not to be oppressed by foreign governments, etc. OUR women should be respected, etc. I do not understand people that claim democracy should apply to every culture. It is pure insanity. If you look at China for example, there is countryculture that has existed for much longer than any in the West. Ho many years have they had a democracy? Zero. We have no right to even make the assertion that China should be democratic....on what basis? We might as well tell them to change their alphabet. Those things are for the Chinese to decide, not us. How many Muslim democracies have there been in the past? As far as I know Turkey is democratic and that is about it over there. I'm not even sure if they are considered Arab. Are they Arab or Turks? In any case, what chance does democracy have in Iraq, realistically? Slim and none. So why the hell are we over there letting our soldiers get killed for something the Arabs don't give a damn about? (Democracy that is)


Which brings me to the final point (at last)- we are there because we are the only nation that support Israel. If it were not for our support of Israel, quite honestly, I wonder if there would have been a Sept. 11th attack. Anyway, for a country that has caused us so much trouble they never, ever tone down their act, even when the US gov't is practically begging them to stop with the settlement construction, bull-dozing Palestinian camps, killing Hamas leaders in wheel chairs, declaring Jerusalem their capitol, etc. I respect them for their toughness but they should be a little less cavalier in their actions because it has cost them every friend in the world except for the US and at some point our patience is going to run out as well. It would have been better for us if we had let the Jews and the Arabs fight it out on their own.

 

right. i agree with alot of that.

our responsibility is us. that is all.

tell me why i care about israel and palestine killing each other. i do not, i honestly hope they all kill each other and have no energy left to mess with me. if you cant just relax and be peaceful, then fight, and kill and die, good riddance. both palestinians and jews.

is it so damn hard to figure out how to be peaceful?

the problem is that so many mistakes on our part have us knee-deep in trouble, and we have no chioice but to fight and kill our way out of it, and still we will be worse off than we would have been had we never gotten involved.