I'm not sure this is true. I think we, as Americans, have been raised with the the thought that we are Europe's Great Protector. I also think this is part of our reputation of arrogance.
Umm, History didn't start when you were born. The fact is, until the fall of the Soviet Union, we were, beyond any doubt, Europe's Great Protector. Half of Europe was under the rule of a brutal Emperialist Communist system, lead by the USSR, who had no qualms about subverting Democracies and replacing them with Communist puppet governments (see Eastern Europe and Afghanistan). If it wasn't for our military presence in Germany and the rest of "free Europe", the USSR would have had absolutely no problem finding a way to invade and rule those countries. I mean, I'm only 28 but I remember growing up with the shadow of an immenent war with Russia. Typical Americans get so consumed in their ideology that it blinds their logical abilities to look past the last few years' events to get proper context. Only in the last 10-12 years or so has the political map of Europe finally settled down. As such, you will continue to see a reduction in our presence in many European areas. Arrogance? No. Necessity to protect our country and NATO? Yep. General American ignorance of history as demonstrated by your statement? Hmmm....
Screw the french. Yellow bellied bastards if you ask me. I served with a bunch and, I'm here to tell you, they suck. Might as well stayed home for all the good they did. My hatred of france has little to do with their politics. My dislike of them is due to spending way too much time serving around them. The Foreign Legion...Don't confuse these guys with the french army. Most are not french. There are many former U.S. Marines serving with them. Ran into them a couple of times. Most recently was in africa. I get along with them pretty well and like their attitudes. Fix Bayonets! Charge! You've got to love the Legion. Almost signed up myself. The germans are no better than the french, worse maybe. Their first deployment since WWII was to the balkans. Boy could I tell you some stories about the germans. Let's just say that we proved they couldn't fight. No leadership at all. Forgotten how to fight. Spain has a lot of ships, of course they are all our second hand crap that we gave them. The way it was explained to me, it was cheaper to give them away than destroy them. The swedish army is a total waste of flesh and uniforms. They couldn't fight their way out of a wet paper sack. They build cool buildings though. You wouldn't believe the kinds of buildings they build on their military bases. They snort some kind of tobacco up their noses too, weird. The first time I saw the swiss in rome I about died laughing. Funniest looking little punks with spears you'll ever see. It has to be embarrassing to get stuck pulling that duty. Portugal...whatever. Joke. Russians are too busy trying to figure out where their next meal is coming from. Most of the time their soldiers don't get paid. Lithuania...They're alright. Very small but seemed to be well disciplined. Their military is no threat on their own. Seemed nice enough. Estonia...see Lithuania above. Like the rest of the former USSR, they're outdated. They seemed well trained. The Dutch are good to go, small but mean. Their Marine Corps mirrors ours. Same exact equipment only on a smaller scale. They speak damn good English also. I'd like to serve with them again. A Dutch Marine saved my life once. My dumb ass was about to step on a land mine and he warned me just in time. Of course, he probably saved his own life also, seeing as how he was standing right next to me. Damn canadian mine sweepers, worthless. Italy...do they have a military? Just kidding, they suck. Drank many a beer with them and put em' under the table every time. That's if we didn't kick their butts first. Greeks....Joke Polish......laughable Brits....get on my last nerve. Annoying bastards. Decent military. Irish....? Turks...suck. Pretty country though. If you go to europe you must go to turkey. Stay around the coast. Don't go to the compounds. Some of you may know what I'm talking about. Austrians...good bunch of fellows. I very much enjoyed my time with them. They remind me a lot of us, only they're a little rough around the edges. Don't bring up hitler. Love to drink beer. Dependable in a fire fight. I'd serve with them again if given the chance. Malta....nice bars. Interesting little place. No military to speak of. Slovenia.....About all they're good for is climbing mountains. They're good at that though. Spent two weeks climbing with them and I guess they're ok. No real military to speak of. Croatia....kept to themselves. I spent a couple of days providing security to the commander of their military. They got their butts kicked around by the serbs, enough said. I damn near died in Croatia once. I came within a hair of having my head ripped off by the tail rotor of a CH-53. Macedonia.....Military stinks. Facilities are ruined. No money. Very poor country. Never ride in a tour bus in macedonia if you are going anywhere near the mountains that border greece. That ride scared the crap out of me. The roads are one lane and the driver thought he was in a corvette. Serbia.....Military pretty much doesn't exist anymore. They didn't put up much of fight. Nothing against them though. If you ask me, we were on the wrong side in that one. Albanians.....can go to hell. No military, just a bunch of muslim scum running around the foothills with AK's. Every time I see that falcon flag of theirs I get sick to my stomach. Sorriest bunch of bastards it's ever been my displeasure to be around.
We have less than 200 B-61 nuclear bombs remaining in Europe acording to experts. There are NO remaining cruise missiles or ballistic missiles with nuclear warheads. You said US missiles and I am right. The Pershing-II and Tomahawk nuclear missiles were banned by the Intermediate-range Nuclear Forces (INF) Treaty, which was signed by the United States and the Soviet Union in December 1987. Link I didn't say the French were better than the British, I said that they possess one of the major military forces on the planet. They are still behind the US, Russia, China, and Britain. So do all of our allies, including the British. We are the only superpower. Yes, but not the missiles you cite--they were removed 15 years ago. My point is that the Brits and the French still have their own nuclear deterrent forces including ballistic missiles. I understand you don't like the French, I don't much either. But you are putting your hostility ahead of the facts. I agree totally that French politics are horrible, often anti-American, and inconsistent. I despise French politics. But just because they don't politically like to fight doesn't mean that they are incapable of it. I was pointing out that your statement, "They have like 2 ships and one may sink at any minute. I think they have 4 planes....it's a joke" is completely incorrect. They have a professional military with advanced weapons that are handicapped by fools in charge of the French Government. You are the one who said the Europeans were acting like children, I don't have to disprove it, you haven't proved it. I pointed out that the Euros have sufficient military power to protect themselves, now that the Soviets are gone. They just don't always have the power (or willpower) to join us on an international superpower deployment. I already did. We called on France for Desert Storm and they came with an army, and air force and a navy. Historical fact. They were the third-biggest Western force in the battle. The French stood with us for decades in the Cold War against the Soviets and developed their own bombers and nuclear missiles to help deter the enemy. Historical fact.
Wait, wait, wait. Man you really can't admit it huh. You said we haven't had any nuke's in Europe since Reagan....WRONG!!!! Reagan added more nuke's in Europe at their request and they are still there. C'mon man, admit it. I remember videos of nuke's rolling through Europe on trucks. I knew you were wrong. You certainly have backtracked from those bold statements earlier of how advanced the French army is. They have poor training, poor technology and poor leadership and if it came down to it, most of Europe would bow down to whomever came calling. Britain could hold their own but friend, that is it. They, nor you want to admit it but we have been Europe's Great Protector since the 30s. They know, we know it....hell anyone who reads knows it. Except you of course.
Dude, they were not involved at all in any fighting or support. A.) they were weeks late to the party b) their equipment was not suited to any sort of feasible combat. Did you read the part where it said their planes couldn't fly at night? The French didn't stand with anybody against the Soviet's. We starred down the Soviets by putting our nuke's in Western Europe. The Soviet's were never deterred by the French.........you really believe this stuff you're shoveling? Where's the proof that the Soviet's backed down because of the French nuclear deterrent and their vast armies? I can prove why they backed down and it wasn't France my friend. C'mon man. I never said I hated the French. I could care less because even if we have their support, it means nothing. It's like saying the planet Neptune supports us and is our ally. The support is the same. What I'm talkigng about is you and you're lack of knowledge on the subject of "Old Europe" vs. the US and what we have meant to their protection during WWI, WWII and keeping the Soviets from making the whole of Europe their southernmost provience. And for the vast most part, Europe's military might is not what kept anyone from attacking. I mean, give credit where credit is due. The US kept them safe. Just like Taiwan and China now.........you think the vast Taiwanese army is keeping China from taking them over? Same thing my friend.
Agreed. Screw the French, they piss me off all of the time. No they arent nearly as good as us, nobody is. But they are a major player in international politics and they do have a large military. But they are a part of the French army, so at least this part aren't pussies, even if their government is. The French are puzzling. Their government surrendered in WWII in the first week of the war and collaborated with the Germans for six years, yet the French Resistance had big brass balls and fugged up the German occupation on a major scale. Interesting. They had the best infantry in WWII. It goes to show you what a 60-year layoff can do for an army. I think you confuse the ridiculous Swiss with the more effective Swedes, amigo. Field assessments are always hard to find. Thanks for the insight. It is important for us to remember that attitude plays a big part in military effectiveness. I have heard horror stories about the long-haired, dope-smoking Dutch draftees, it is good to hear that their professionals have their chit together. Start a new thread sometime, Salty, and tell us more.
I said no US nuclear MISSILES remain in Europe which is a fact I documented above. Your videos are ancient history, amigo. We do still have nuclear free-fall bombs deployed. The nuclear missiles remaining in Europe are European. Incidentally I agree with you that the US has no further need to station troops there for the defense of Europe. The Euros can defend themselves unless the Russians backslide on us. But our English and German air bases are important staging areas for middle eastern activities and a token force will likely remain as a "trip-wire" to deter the Russians from getting ideas that we might not come back if they moved West again.
You are misinfomed. The French Resistance undertook much sabotage and spying and after the Normandy invasion took overt military action against the Germans. The French Resistance "On 5th June, 1944, General Dwight D. Eisenhower asked the BBC sent out coded messages to the resistance asking them to carry out acts of resistance during the D-day landings in order to help Allied forces establish a beachhead on the Normandy coast. This included attacks on the occupied garrisons in the towns of Tulle and Gueret. In revenge for the French attack on the German garrison 120 men were hanged in Tulle on 9th June. Later that day another 67 were murdered in Argenton. These armed resistance groups were able to slow down the attempt by the 2nd SS Panzer Division to get to the Normandy beaches. It was decided to carry out a revenge attack that would frighten the French people into submission. On 10th June a group of soldiers led by Major Otto Dickmann, entered Oradour-sur-Glane, a village in the Haute-Vienne region of France. He ordered the execution of more than 600 men, women and children before setting fire to the village. Despite these atrocities the French Resistance continued to take up arms against the German Army. After the war General Dwight D. Eisenhower wrote: "Throughout France the Resistance had been of inestimable value in the campaign. Without their great assistance the liberation of France would have consumed a much longer time and meant greater losses to ourselves."
OK bro......we know what happened here. I know we need to keep good relations with these people...........for a majority of our citizens, that is our ancestrel homeland. I think their value as a military ally is more for show than anything else.....show to the world that everyone is behind us. Even though they may only have 250 men over there.
