I do not know why God allows suffering and sorrow in this world. We would all prefer a world where this was unknown to us.
I would say Penrose's calcs are likely far from 'accurate' But most who've looked at this agree that the odds are 'extreme' Whether its 10^10^123, or just 10^10^65, who knows. But same effect. Most all physicist accept the big bang. The steady state Universe was believed by all educated atheist, physicist atheist until it was forced down crapper in the early 60s. In order to have it where 'everything always existed' you need a cyclical Universe. Big bang, big crunch, etc... It is not a 'quack' theory, but the problem is with the data. For one, the data shows that the Universe is headed for a cold death. All theories that try to circumvent this data go down in flames. Where was the matter? Energy at near infinite density and temperature appeared on a point and then 'rapidly' expanded, cooling, particles forming from energy, as governed by the physical laws, parameters, 'randomly' locked in for this Universe, and then matter, then stars, and then trillions of galaxies. Yes, i think God always existed. All information available indicates that the Universe, matter, energy, etc...did not.
you know, i think that it was created [To cause to exist; bring into being] by God - given the fine tuning of the universe, and other reasons or fine tunings, it's far and away the reasonable explanation for me. I can't explain how He did that. Some will say i don't care about the unimaginable odds, the odds must be wrong, the experts must be wrong,i don't care what it obviously looks like, it cannot be intelligent design because that is just not possible. Why?
I don't agree that the odds are accurate, if described as unimaginable, I believe they are making up the variables. how likely is X, how likely is Y, how likely is Z . I think X and Y and Z unknowns, based on a sample of 1. but people don't want to accept that. I didn't say intelligent design is not possible, I am saying its not known that it is, so there is no reason to believe that over other explanations. intelligent design is no more likely than a theory I have never heard. everything you might claim supports it is an assertion I don't agree with. like they complexity cannot develop from chaos, that things cannot self optimize for an environment. but they can, and they do. intelligent design seemed a lot more credible before evolution was understood, and how things will naturally adapt to perfectly fit a habitat. without an overseer. to me the idea of an overseer snapping things into existence seems like the thing you would call "kooky" as its unprecendented. all all knowing infinitely powerful being seems really outlandish of a claim. a more mudane and anodyne claim is that we don't know where anything came from really, and that's the end of it.
Once again, there's no evidence of "fine tuning". Actually, it's quite egocentric... "I consider myself special so this place was especially designed for me." I've given you a valid analogy. Throw a balloon full of paint at the wall, it splashes into a pattern. You find the pattern exceedingly beautiful. The odds of that exact pattern? Astronomical to the extreme. And yet there it is. Your "fine tuning" argument says that "hey, the pattern works for me, the odds of it happening are unimaginable, so it must have been designed for me." Of course, there are countless other patterns that might have emerged, instead.... just as with this universe, there are countless other patterns that might have emerged... patterns that wouldn't have included your egocentric self.
When you look at ALL of the research, the scouring of the vastness of space and to date Earth is the only planet to support life? Not just life as in some organism but life as we know it with an abundance of resources, how is that? Out of the countless galaxies that have been examined we are the only ones to date? That had to be by design
Some far better minds than your own (Bertrand Russell, Christopher Hitchens, Stephen Hawking, Mark Twain, Isaac Asimov, Aristotle, Immanuel Kant, HL Mencken, George Bernard Shaw, myself) disagree that this "had to be by design". Who designed your god? (I already know the answer to that, of course.... it's YOU)
shane gave us an argument from incredulity, and rex responded with an argument from authority. more importantly, there is just no evidence for a creator so we should admit we don't know anything instead of believing in things we make up
Well you non believers in god still have not answered my question. From advanced ancient to current day civilizations to the most remote tribes over the world have believed in and worshipped a higher power. Gods like Ra, Oden, Alla etc to the American Indians who saw a god and higher power in gods earthly creations. Why is that? I am with Shane on this, intelligent design. Just look at nature how everything fits with a purpose on earth. As far as Rex's list of "better minds" to hell with them. They are no better than some shrimper from Delcambre at answering that question. If fact I would be more inclined to not only side with that shrimpers thoughts than Rex's list but on most common sense issues like are there more than 2 sexes which DEMOCRATS can't answer. Lastly I would vote for that shrimper for over any democrat for president. Hell I would vote for that shrimpers 6 year old son over Biden.
