Interesting statements Sourdough. Quid Pro Quo - Are atheists more liberal or just less conservative? "Conservative" encompasses a lot more than just the social issues of the Religious Right. Are they more for abortion or more for mother's rights? Are you saying that, in general, atheists are immoral? Qualifier aside, I'm just curious as to this devil's advocate.
I do think conservatives have better ethics and morals especially religious conservatives than atheist liberals Are their atheist conservatives and liberal religious people, probably so. I qualified what I said above by saying there are exceptions to the rule, there are exceptions to every rule. Abortion is murder no matter how you try and name it. Mothers rights, no such thing, I don't have a problem with the abortion or murder of a child if its to save the mothers life, that is the only exception. Another exception to the rule you see, circumstances are everything in life. Another example, a broken home. Kids that have a father and have a whole family unit tend to not get raised on the streets therefore they are less likely to break the law and kill people. There are exceptions to the rule then again when this isn't an exact science. I do think people who believe in god will think twice before committing a crime compared to those that live with the attitude that whatever feels good do it or society owes me this or that. In general yes, atheists are the ones that are trying to take god out of everything. This country was founded for 200 years with the name god. Our country was founded under god, the constitution not to mention later on when it was added to money. There are exceptions to the rule, there are atheists that are more moral than some who claim to be religious. Another example The decay of society since the 1800's or 1900's, not talking about 1965 or later here. Look at all the child abductions, rapes, killings, stealing. People these days aren't the same as they use to be before the separation of church and state. People do these things these days over someone's tennis shoes and think nothing about it. Some at this forum think there is no such thing as decay of our society it is my opinion they are flat wrong.
One more thing, Do I think that Atheists are bad people? No I don't, I just don't think there morals are as well grounded or as stable as others. Could I be wrong? Yes, it is my opinion for what its worth.
OK. Now we have some clarification. Religious Conservatives vs Atheist Liberals on Morals and Ethics. I take no issue with your qualifier. You laid it out there, and it stands on its own. There are, no doubt, exceptions to every rule. I just happen to believe there are just as many wackjob religious conservatives as there are wackjob atheist liberals. Its just how the media presents things to make it more interesting (That's pure numbers, not percentages). I don't think the traditional family unit concept can be generalized. With the number of divorces beginning to outpace the number of marriages, there are plenty of kids raised in non-traditional family units, that have strong character. A BIG problem here is perception. Typically the perception that Joe is a good kid, even though he just got arrested for dealing crack to an undercover officer. But Joe goes to church with Mom on Sunday because she makes him, and it gives the appearance that he is a good kid. I'm not sure that atheist opinions have much to do with the attitude that whatever feels good do it or society owes me this or that. This goes back to you can be moral or immoral, regardless of your acceptance of religion in your life. There are plenty of people out there that are God-fearing individuals who sincerely believe that socitety owes them something. Look no further than those people waiting for federal handouts instead of seeking out a job. I agree with you about the decay of society. There is no doubt that the jails are overflowing with individuals who have little to offer in the way of socially redeeming values. The tennis shoes problem IMO has more to do with parental apathy and negligence, than anything else mentioned above. As long as we continue to run a welfare state and refuse to make people responsible for all of their actions, from childbirthing to murder, we will continue to grow the divide between the haves and the have nots. Its a system problem that needs a system reboot. And I appreciate your opinion. What's even more interesting to me is that in your followup email, you indicate that your opinion is that atheists' morals are not as grounded or stable as others. Of course, with your original qualifier, I think this is pretty true. With that qualifier being that there are exceptions to every rule. And for this case, I believe that the press sensationalizes those few atheists who take their opinions to the next level, just as those in the Religious Right choose to do so. Further, I don't think either opinion ought to be brought to the forefront of the press. Thanks for a polite, reciprocating discussion. Podnuh.
I always find Christian condemnation hilariously ironic. Kinda defeats the purpose...or just comes right out and says 'I don't necessarily treat others the way that Jesus wants me to, but I pretend to be holy because I'm scared to go to hell.'
Agnostics are in no way atheists. Atheists absolutely deny the existence of God. Agnostics believe that we have no way of knowing if God exists or what he expects from us if he does exist. Many agnostics believe in a Creator, they just don't believe in any of the many mythologies mankind has created. In America one is free to be extremely religious, quasi-religious, atheist, agnostic, satanic, or any blend that he wishes. We have people in this country who worship frisbees. Sounds like a good system to me.
Red, I didn't try to say the two were the same. But that doesn't change that some religious folk view them as both being wrong & thus I wanted opinions on both.
I'm glad you can see that there are exceptions to every rule, but I'd have to disagree & say there is no such rule in this, or pretty much any of your cases. They are mere generalizations (not necessarily based on fact, but rather perceptions) on your part, and of course you are entitled to your opinion. You just said a whole bunch of things that you equate with atheism, that aren't factually dealing with atheists at all. It has nothing to do with exceptions to rules. God fearing folk are just as capable & likely to feel that society owes them something & do whatever feels good. Also, most of the divorces you speak of came from marriages at a church by christians. Why do you suppose catholics have to confess? Religous people commit crimes just like atheists do. You can call these people hypocrites if you want - but they are none the less, christian-god-believing, church-following people. Whether society is decaying or not might be debatable, but even if it weren't & you are right - I don't think it has anything to do with the seperation of church & state. Why would it? People are just as capable of going to church without the state's involvement. Just differing opinions again, I suppose.
not true. not believing in god is not the same as not denying its existence. for instance i do not believe you have a 6 foot long beard. but it is possible. i do not just believe in random unproven pieces of information. i dont deny them either. "a·the·ist One who disbelieves or denies the existence of God or gods." the word "or" in that definition means you can disbelieve without denying. disbelief is not denial. like the example i used before, if i think of a randon number between zero and infinity, you probably cant guess it. but i do not deny you can. i am an atheist regarding belief in you guessing the random number. you might guess it. but it seems damn unlikely.
