What's government's interest in outlawing homosexual marriage?

Discussion in 'Free Speech Alley' started by Rex, Nov 14, 2008.

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  1. Bandit88

    Bandit88 Old Enough to Know Better

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    Seems to me this is a culture battle, not a legal one. Because, if it were simply a legal discussion, I'm betting both sides could rather quickly come up with a way to provide rights-based equal treatment without treading on cultural questions like the definition of marriage, etc.

    If you buy that, and think it is indeed a cultural battle, then there is no compromise answer. Folks rarely compromise about culture. They either roll over and simmer because they're too weak to fight, or use it as a rallying cry.

    That's called raison de guerre (too late to check spelling - how'd I do?)

    My point (via Cleveland, Dallas and Atlanta) is that unless this becomes simply a legal issue, it will (like abortion) NEVER be satisfactorily settled.
     
    Bandit88, Nov 16, 2008
    #31
  2. Rex

    Rex Founding Member

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    I don't blame you for trying to divest yourself now of components of your own argument, but these were YOUR words:

    Like I said, let's make this real easy: what rights granted to heterosexual "married" couples should be denied to homosexuals in government-sanctioned "civil unions"?
     
    Rex, Nov 17, 2008
    #32
  3. red55

    red55 curmudgeon Staff Member

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    Again repeating your question without responding to my challenge to tell us what you think. You're trying to say something here, obviously. Why not just say it?
     
    red55, Nov 17, 2008
    #33
  4. red55

    red55 curmudgeon Staff Member

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    I agree.

    Often true, but not inevitable. Roe v Wade itself is a compromise that has worked for 40 years on the abortion issue. Neither side is entirely comfortable with it but it has held because it gives each side something. I think compromise positions can be found to give both sides something in the gay marriage issue.

    Raison de la guerre.

    I think the legal issue is fixable and the cultural issue can be mediated. But it's going to take people who want to solve it and the moderates on each side of the issue will have to prevent the extremists from setting the agenda.
     
    red55, Nov 17, 2008
    #34
  5. Bandit88

    Bandit88 Old Enough to Know Better

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    Interesting. Don't want to hijack the thread, but interested in how you think the pro-life folks (any of them) could view RvW as a compromise. Maybe a PM if you have time?

    Merci. I knew I was missing something.

    Seems to me extremists almost always set the agenda (and the narratives). Moderates influence is hidden until the final voting.
     
    Bandit88, Nov 17, 2008
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  6. red55

    red55 curmudgeon Staff Member

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    It won't take long. In the battle between those that say no abortion at is permitted at any time and those who say that it is the mothers choice to make whenever she wants . . . Roe is a compromise position. It restricts abortion to the first trimester and allow exceptions for the health of the mother in late-term abortions. Both sides got something. Neither got everything.
     
    red55, Nov 17, 2008
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  7. StaceyO

    StaceyO Football Turns Me On

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    Not to hijack further, Red, but do you really think many pro-choice folks would be in favor of abortions after the first trimester? It's bad enough if a person waits past the 7th or 8th week, when the baby has a heartbeat that can be heard through the mom's stomach with Doppler, along with arms, legs, and a brain.
     
    StaceyO, Nov 17, 2008
    #37
  8. Bandit88

    Bandit88 Old Enough to Know Better

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    This is not a hot button issue for me, but I don't think the vast majority of pro-life folks would agree that RvW is a compromise. If only one side thinks it's a compromise, is it still a compromise? I'm not sure.
     
    Bandit88, Nov 17, 2008
    #38
  9. red55

    red55 curmudgeon Staff Member

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    Almost nobody does, but pro-choicers believe that the life of the mother is a vital exception.

    Roe was a long time coming and when it did it has worked better than what existed before. There are no more back alley abortionists, quickie trips to mexican clinics, and all the resulting deaths, young women are not jailed for making a hard decision anymore. Americans just don't want abortion to be dangerous and illegal again and Roe solved those problems But there is great disagreement on where to draw that line. That's why I think Roe is not going away anytime soon.
     
    red55, Nov 17, 2008
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  10. Bandit88

    Bandit88 Old Enough to Know Better

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    Just to back you up on this. [link] I honestly didn't know one way or the other. Interesting.

    It's too bad the decision itself was so poorly arrived at. I'm amazed it hasn't been overturned purely on those grounds.
     
    Bandit88, Nov 17, 2008
    #40
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