What's government's interest in outlawing homosexual marriage?

Discussion in 'Free Speech Alley' started by Rex, Nov 14, 2008.

  1. red55

    red55 curmudgeon Staff Member

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    I see you are a contentious polemic. And a simple one.
     
  2. Rex

    Rex Founding Member

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    Sorry, but your post was an incoherent mess, and your later one doesn't rescue it.

    Once again...

    That's plainly incorrect. Gays can call their civil unions whatever they wish to call them. It's called "freedom of speech," but once again, your statement here is about the TERM when elsewhere you claim to be arguing about the institution.

    Now you're arguing about the institution, your own personal preference but nothing you can back constitutionally. Our government doesn't exist to protect your religious prejudices but to guarantee equality under the law. Did our government have a right to end Mormon polygamist "marriages"? If you say yes, then you've contradicted your own statement that government shouldn't force conditions contrary to religious beliefs. If you say no, then you're contradicting your own argument about government having the right to reserve the word for a traditional union of man and woman.

    So, now it IS about the WORD.

    Oh? That's not what your previous sentence indicates.

    And now it's NOT about the word, but about the tradition.

    Instead of all that semantic flip-flopping why don't you just state your PRECISE stance? You don't mind so much that gays live together and have equal property and cohabitation rights, but you're opposed to government using the WORD "marriage" to describe it because it offends your personal and religious sensibilities. It's ALL about the word, despite your denials. It's petty silliness to expect our government to protect word definitions.
     
  3. kcal

    kcal Founding Member

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    so why can't you "marry" your dog? or a duck????????

    or marry your sister

    or have 6 wives??????
     
  4. red55

    red55 curmudgeon Staff Member

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    It's an opnion. You cannot call it incorrect if it is correctly my opinion.

    I'm arguing about both. Your inability to distinguish them is not my problem. Sure, gays can call gay marriage "Cocoa Puffs" if they want to. What I'm saying is that if they usurp this established term "marraige" for a union between a man and a woman to cover something else, then that is a major cause of the discontent from the religious and the traditional among us and is causing them more problems than it solves.

    I'm stating my thoughts on the subject, not making a constitutional argument. I don't give a rats ass if you agree with them or not.

    That's not what I said. I said that the word marriage has both legal (read government) and religious, moral, and anthropological connotations. I suggest that simply making the legal part into a civil union that everybody must obtain before a judge or justice which satisfies the constitutional guarantees of equal treatment under the law. "Marriage" would remain a religious or cultural ceremony under whatever religious codes apply.

    Sure, gay chuches might perform "marriage ceremonies" but it would have only religious status, not legal status.


    Once again, and I'll use small words . . . it's about BOTH. The word 'Doofus" is starting to come to mind.

    I did exactly that. Why don't you just say what you believe, instead of trying to interpret my opinions, which you are patently unqualified to do.

    I'm not the least bit religious, I'm an agnostic. But I can recognize religious sensitivities and understand that institutions that have existed for over 4,000 years cannot be simply wished away. I think that this squabble is largely over semantics and that a solution based on fixing that would go a long way towards making the issue go away. It's that simple. That's my contention.

    If you have a better solution, let's hear it. I think you just like to hear yourself argue.
     
  5. Bengal Buddy

    Bengal Buddy Founding Member

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    That does not change the fact that the primary purpose of marriage is the nurturing and raising of children. The underlying assumption is that it is couples of child-bearing age who normally get married. The few exceptions does not change the underlying assumption. And marriage is not anything you want it to be. The definition of marriage has always been exactly as I described it. This is not my opinion. This has been the case since the institution of marriage. Even couple who have lived together for years without children, will normally marry once children enter into the picture. Marriage is fundamentally about children.
     
  6. married2atiger

    married2atiger Founding Member

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    If gay marriage is legalized, then your children will be taught in school all about how it is NORMAL for his friend to have 2 dads or 2 moms. The more tolerance there is for that then more and more kids will grow up thinking it is OK for homosexuality. I don't want my kids thinking it is OK. Yes, I know it starts with parenting, but teachers and schools have a lot of influence on young minds also.
     
  7. TigerFanNTenn

    TigerFanNTenn Founding Member

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    My husband and I aren't planning on EVER having children. I believe we have just as much right to be married as people who do want babies.
     
  8. Rex

    Rex Founding Member

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    I'm sorry, but when an argument contains contradictory components and/or directly leads to contradictions, as yours did, then it's incoherent. And you skipped right over the discussion of Mormon polygamist marriages even though you previously insisted government has no right to force practices contrary to religion.

    I'll make it easy here... what property, contractual, taxation, etc. rights given to a heterosexual "married" couple should be denied to a homosexual couple in a government-sanctioned "civil union"?
     
  9. red55

    red55 curmudgeon Staff Member

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    Everybody else seems to understand it pretty well, chief. You're just being contrary. :insane:

    I only used it to illustrate that your statement that governments could not interfere in religion was wrong. You skip over most of my responses. I don't blame you . . . :grin:

    I stated "Gays have no right, in my opinion, to usurp the term marriage and apply it to the civil unions they are no doubt constitutionally entitled to." Where is an insistence on government forced practices? You made it up. I'm giving you my opinion of a concept. Can you possibly understand, can you concieve, can you grok that?

    No, I'll make it easier than that. You should have been able to discern my position on that in my first post. I see your pattern--you post a question and when people respond you attack their responses and just make contrary arguments. Then you ask more questions . . . I'm not taking the bait again.

    I asked you before, why don't you tell us what you think about it, it's clearly on your mind and you don't like the responses here. Do you have a personal thought at all on the question above? Let's hear them and I'll tell you what I think about your ideas, assuming you have any.
     
  10. Bandit88

    Bandit88 Old Enough to Know Better

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    :rofl:

    Now how'd you recognize that there pattern, amigo? :lol:
     

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