What was the cause of "The Big Bang"?

Untrue, but I don't have time to refute that point right now. I'll get back to you later when I can get my sources together.

 

my second favorite writer always says things better than i do.

"The essence of science is that it is always willing to abandon a given
idea, however fundamental it may seem to be, for a better one; the
essence of theology is that it holds its truths to be eternal and
immutable. To be sure, theology is always yielding a little to the
progress of knowledge, and only a Holy Roller in the mountains of
Tennessee would dare to preach today what the popes preached in the
Thirteenth Century, but this yielding is always done grudgingly, and
thus lingers a good while behind the event. So far as I am aware even
the most liberal theologian of today still gags at scientific concepts
that were already commonplaces in my schooldays." - H L Mencken

 

http://home.nycap.rr.com/trumbore/sermons/sa12.html


Science is excellent at observing the surface of things because of its objective methods. The essential aspects of the philosophy of scientific inquiry are[1]:

1. Instrumental injunction - a method or system that can be followed and repeated by others to duplicate one's results. "If you want to know this, do this."
2. Direct apprehension - an immediate experience brought forward by the injunction that generates some sort of measurable, verifiable data.
3. Communal confirmation (or rejection) Checking and comparing the results with others who have also followed the instrumental injunction and experienced the direct apprehension.

I measure a tablespoon of baking soda and a cup of vinegar. I mix them and observe the result. I drop a lead ball and measure the time it takes for it to fall a measured distance. I compare my results with others who have done similar experiments. The patterns and discoveries come from applying my mind to the data. Experiment, observe then confirm. Religion has worked the other direction. It has started with an interior direct revelation to a prophet who has then demonstrated its reality in his or her life that then brings communal confirmation. The prophet and/or his or her disciples then leave instrumental injunctions on how to reproduce the direct apprehension which can be confirmed by the community who have also experienced the same direct apprehension as the prophet.

Unfortunately, over time, religion often becomes reduced to following instrumental injunctions for themselves alone. Say this prayer, do this yoga position, chant this mantra because this is what God wants you to do to be good. Science, too, can be reduced to an investigation of physical phenomena, closing off all interest in investigating Spirit. One method works well in the invisible world of meaning and the other one in the measurable world of facts.


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Note what the above commentary says about religion; compare it to what I have said about the difference between true spiritual faith and empty ritualistic religion....

Where religion and science can meet once again and find common ground is the center of the scientific method - direct, repeatable experience. Just as the laws of the movement of objects can be directly witnessed and repeated by anyone sufficiently trained in the scientific method, so too are methods taught by spiritual leaders that also lead to direct, repeatable experiences that can be verified by a community of practitioners. Enlightenment can be approached with the same precision as a scientific experiment.

Not only can they share a methodology, science and religion can be mutually reinforcing because they both study the same thing - what is real. Scientific techniques to measure how a meditator's brain works may reveal better methods of spiritual realization. Technologists are working on better and better biofeedback machines to do just that. Prayer and devotion may help a scientist break through a difficult problem and make a leap in understanding. The science of the mind and heart can be joined together.

Wilber believes this integration is possible because at the core of everything is Spirit. There is nothing but Spirit taking the form of matter, body and mind. The duality of matter and energy is transcended in Spirit. We are already what we seek. Our challenge is to wake up to this truth.

 

if i had to pick one sentence from that post that proves you are a lunatic, it is this one:

"Prayer and devotion may help a scientist break through a difficult problem and make a leap in understanding"

is that all a 157 iq gets you these days? that is a disappointment.

well, i guess i agree. when a scientist finds a really hard problem, he should just close his eyes and wish up a solution. maybe click his heels together like the chick in the wizard of oz.

i cant really describe how stupid religion is, but you are doing an ok job.

 

I believe in the process of evolution where everything that exists now evolved from something in the past. I believe that in general things grow from a small form to a larger form. This is evident in everyday life to me. Because of simple examples of this in everyday life, I find the expanding universe theory very believable. The universe is simply growing. It started out as something small - perhaps VERY small. In my mind, I trace the evolutionary process of the universe back to the smallest of molecules.

What came before that first molecule?

In my mind, if you go back to that first molecule, what could possibly come before it but nothing? How can something come from nothing? I have NO IDEA. I do not possess the mental capacity to comprehend that.

Thus, I believe in the possibility of some higher being or power that may be in the mix.

What caused the big bang, if it happened? heck if I know!

 

i agree with that. too bad most people cant leave it there, but feel the need to make up nonsensical stories like jesus dying on a cross so people can be forgiven. that makes about as much sense as me killing my dog so that i could forgive a criminal for stealing my money.

 

Considering I didn't write that, your quarrel is with the author of that sermon, not with me.

Personally, I have found answers to scientific problems after praying. Would you say that I clicked my heels together and wished it? Would you say that I just figured it out on my own and the prayer was heard by nobody?

The facts are there, martin. The point I was trying to get across by pasting that is that both religious faith and science are concerned with seeking the reality of truth in their lives. You cannot deny that there are people who have personally experienced the reality of their faith through miracles in their life. What do you say to that?

 

Do you believe that a man named Jesus Christ existed and walked the earth 2000 years ago?

Christianity is founded on the fact that He did indeed exist. Furthermore, not only did He exist, but He was the fulfillment of all of the hundreds of prophecies made about Him in the Old Testament / Hebrew Tenakh hundreds to thousands of years before he was born. Some of them are where he was born, that he would be born of a virgin, the line from which he was descended, that he would die in the cross, that he would be raised from the dead, etc.

If any one of all of the written prophecies were false, Christianity would have faded away many years ago. Over the years all of them have been challenged and upheld by historical fact and documentation.

 

I just have one thing to add,
Nobody believes in God because they came across a good argument for his existence - people believe in God because they have to. If it was possible to prove God's existence, there would be no need for faith.

 

It isn't possible to prove a priori the existence of God. I was just saying that Christianity is based on Jesus being who the Old Testament says he is through fulfillment of the prophecies..

Whether you believe the prophets of the Old Testament is another thing entirely and it goes back to being unable to prove the existence of God.