Not in my book. The pro-choicers usually choose not to abort, but they feel it is a family decision, not a government issue. Aren't you usually against government interference? The "pro-lifers" aren't really pro-life, they are only anti-abortion. Ask any of them what they think about the death penalty and you'll find that they are mostly all for it. If honesty is the issue, how is it different to abort life in the second trimester or in the forty-fifth trimester?
Nice try red. It's not just about life, you're right. The difference, in my mind, is that the baby is innocent, and the scumbag with the needle in his arm asked for it when he committed whatever crime got him there. You can't compare abortion to capital punishment. It's a completely different issue.
No use wasting your time on him Salty. After all, anybody who thinks a fetus is no more valuable than a tumor or a tapeworm.....
yes but i am also very selfish and i dont care about issues that dont affect me much. i dont care either way if they murder babies. so in this case i dont care either way, but to the extent that i do, i prefer pro-lifers purely because it pleases me to bedevil the people who misrepresent their opinion. i am pro-killing babies, but im also anti dishonest jerks. but you make a good point, i do usually favor freedom from government interference. but i think an honest person can believe that life is sacred and that the only real role of government is to protect our most basic rights only, like the right to not be killed. i dont agree with logic, but i think it is an honest perspective. i dont feel like the government is being too intrusive if their goal is to keep people from being murdered. that isnt very oppressive. the dishonest position is that a human life isnt being taken by an abortion. if the pro-choice camp would admit that, i would be happy to agree. but i dont like when people take on opinions without accepting the burden of that position means. in this case, accepting that you dont care about murdering lots of human lives. people will say you are selfish, and that is true. i happily admit to being selfish. everyone is selfish, but they pretend to be better than they are. i dont pretend i am not terrible. i think they can make a pretty strong argument that they oppose killing innocent people, and favor killing bad people. that is a pretty cogent argument in my book. kill the bad guys, save the good guys. i dont agree with it, but it certainly makes logical sense. edit: i notice salty made my point above. that is a opinion i can respect because it makes sense and is logical and honest. i do not agree though. pro-life people have the moral high ground here, if you think that banning murder of the innocent is worthwhile moral. the whole thing is emblematic of why i side with christians and republicans all the time even though i am not one of them. a liberal is lying to everyone because he wants to appear righteous while being selfish. a conservative may be wrong, but at least he believes what he says for the most part. a pro-choice person is selfish, they want to kil their baby out of convenience. thats cool with me, but don't try and sell me some BS line that your baby isnt a human life. of course i think christians are deluding themselves, but i give em a break because at least they arent trying to trick me into thinking they are better than they are.
Thats not always true. I am always pro-life and usually anti-death penalty. But even as such I see the difference between an innocent baby, and a convicted criminal.
Of course it's different. But they are both "sanctity of life" issues and those who are taking a high moral position must address them. Life is either sacred or it isn't.
Damnit red, you know good and well how we "conservatives" view this. An unborn baby is still a little baby. The child, in our opinion, is a living human from the moment of conception. His or her life is sacred. They are completely innocent. It doesn't matter if their mother is a crack whore or if they were conceived by rape or incest. They're still an innocent little person. A person convicted of a capital offense, on the other hand, is not innocent. He or she has either taken another persons life or ruined it. That person has committed a crime that only God can forgive. They knew the consequences of their actions. They accepted the risk. Their life is no longer sacred and there is no realistic hope of reform. I say kill them quicker than we do. There is no reason for them to sit on death row for decades, wasting tax payers money. Give them one appeal, then stick them. The baby is innocent, the other has been proven guilty. There is no comparison. That is unless you are some delusional Catholic.
And, to address the way pro-choice people view the subject, they simply want no consequences for their actions. They want to be able to have their one night stands with no fear of having other responsibilities afterward. They are the types that don't want anyone telling them what they can or cannot do, especially the government and God.
First of all, let me admit that I'm pulling your chain a little bit and arguing for the choicers because their position isn't being represented well here and a one-sided discussion is a bore. In fact, I have very mixed feelings about the whole matter, as do most people. As to the issue of guilt and innocence, I'm entirely in agreement with you. Fetuses are innocent. And I'm a long proponent of the death penalty, myself with no mixed feelings. But I was making a more narrow point. Many pro-lifers been arguing that they were promoting "Life" and that life was sacred and that no one could take life but God. Obviously there are mitigating issues (like guiltyness) in the death penalty, and there is the closely-related issue of "right to die", but I wanted someone to address the "sanctity of life" question, and SupaFan did. I don't advocate abortion, very few people do. It normally should be a very rare thing to considered only when a mothers life is at risk. Rape and incest victims are not guilty of anything either and their life must also be considered. Tough choices face these innocent people. I also feel that it is a private matter for a family, their doctors, and their religious advisors. Very many people feel this way. Government intrusion into family matters is an extremely bad thing.
Come on Salty, nobody has advocated abortion as birth control here, and very few people meet that criteria. That's a distraction. The major concerns are the life of the mother and the innocent victims of rape and incest. And choicers surely don't think the government has a right to intervene. Of course, nobody can speak for God.
