War on Women, or Women in War

Discussion in 'Free Speech Alley' started by LaSalleAve, Sep 10, 2015.

  1. Bengal B

    Bengal B Founding Member

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    Don't they already have women pilots flying combat missions?
     
  2. uscvball

    uscvball Founding Member

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    Yes but that's not the type of combat I was referring to. Pilots are fine IMO although if/when they get shot down, it won't be pretty.
     
  3. Bengal B

    Bengal B Founding Member

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    Women pilots stationed in Saudi Arabia can fly planes but are not allowed to drive cars because women driving is illegal
     
  4. red55

    red55 curmudgeon Staff Member

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    There is a balance to be achieved here. Women in combat infantry units will just probably never work. With rare exceptions through history, women just don't participate in war. No lack of courage or desire, they just don't have the physical strength or testosterone for the nitty gritty of ground combat.

    On the other hand, war is not all about the nitty gritty of hand-to-hand field combat. Woman can make good pilots, even combat pilots. Women can fly drones, interpret aerial photos, fire artillery, serve on ships, operate radar, repair helicopters, and do a ton of vital logistical work. Most soldiers do not fight on the front lines and women can handle all of those jobs, just as men always have.

    And if a woman gets through Ranger training without any special conditions, then she deserves a shot at serving in the 75th Regiment in combat operations, if she can handle it. But honestly, these two women are West Point graduates and are looking to advance. It's harder to compete for a general's job someday if you don't have a CIB and all the competition does. If they are willing to go through ranger training to get a shot at earning the badge, let them fight. There won't be many and not all of them will stick it out for the long haul, but those few that walk the walk . . . let them fight.
     
  5. Bengal B

    Bengal B Founding Member

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    All of that is true except for maybe the flying drones part. Drone jockeys are mostly boys who were very good at video games. Most girls aren't that interested in V Games and don't develop the skill and eye-hand coordination
     
  6. Winston1

    Winston1 Founding Member

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    I'm sure many won't like this but whether women should be in combat arms is not a question of ability but of what is best for society in the long run. For over a thousand years Western European civilization women and their ideal drove us to be better, kinder and gentler. The ideal of living up to womens' demands that we become better is one of the things that brought us up from the dark ages. That they would want to be warriors is in my mind a reversal of the very element that has pushed us to be better.
    Please understand I'm not talking about rights or capabilities. Rather I am talking about the loss of an ideal that has been one of the guiding lights of civilization. Look at the coursening of society in the last 50 years.
    There may be practical arguments pro and con. There may be legalities that have abetted the change but in the long run what makes us better needs to be considered.
    Are we better of with Rhonda Rousey battering other women, with women aping the worst of men's' attributes? To me that is the more important question.
     
    tigerchick46, soonerbabe and uscvball like this.
  7. uscvball

    uscvball Founding Member

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    Couple thoughts....girls may not previously have been all that interested but slowly that is changing and mostly due to access and games that they are interested in.

    I think it's a huge mistake to consider drone flying to be nothing more than video game jockeys. "Doc,” one of America’s few practicing psychologists with top-secret clearance, spends his days talking to drone pilots.....He is frustrated, he said, that some people picture the pilots as disengaged, mindlessly blasting away at targets like a kid playing Halo. “Nothing could be further from the truth. They are physiologically engaged with what’s going on,” he says."
    http://www.defenseone.com/managemen...ot-shrink-says-they-need-vacation-war/115498/

    It's a great and informative read. As is this.....
    "The U.S. drone war across much of the Greater Middle East and parts of Africa is in crisis and not because civilians are dying or the target list for that war or the right to wage it just about anywhere on the planet are in question in Washington. Something far more basic is at stake: drone pilots are quitting in record numbers.

    There are roughly 1,000 such drone pilots, known in the trade as “18Xs,” working for the U.S. Air Force today. Another 180 pilots graduate annually from a training program that takes about a year to complete at Holloman and Randolph Air Force bases in, respectively, New Mexico and Texas. As it happens, in those same 12 months, about 240 trained pilots quit and the Air Force is at a loss to explain the phenomenon. (The better-known U.S. Central Intelligence Agency drone assassination program is also flown by Air Force pilots loaned out for the covert missions.)

    On January 4, 2015, the Daily Beast revealed an undated internal memo to Air Force Chief of Staff General Mark Welsh from General Herbert “Hawk” Carlisle stating that pilot “outflow increases will damage the readiness and combat capability of the MQ-1/9 [Predator and Reaper] enterprise for years to come” and added that he was “extremely concerned.” Eleven days later, the issue got top billing at a special high-level briefing on the state of the Air Force. Secretary of the Air Force Deborah Lee James joined Welsh to address the matter. “This is a force that is under significant stress—significant stress from what is an unrelenting pace of operations,” she told the media."
    http://inthesetimes.com/working/entry/17718/drone_pilots
     
  8. LaSalleAve

    LaSalleAve when in doubt, mumble

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    Hell, what if a unit with a woman or women gets taken captive?
     
  9. uscvball

    uscvball Founding Member

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    "Both female officers twice failed to clear the first phase but were allowed to start over. While many men also are allowed to redo a phase, it’s rare — though not unheard of — for soldiers to be allowed to start over from the beginning after failing the same phase twice. "
     
  10. hebertjp

    hebertjp Founding Member

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    Sure. I mentioned in a previous post about making an exception for tasks that require strength. To that I would add speed and endurance. But what about the following:

    I don't know anything about these weapons but if they aren't heavy, is there any other explanation in the difference in accuracy besides 'Women suck at shooting weapons'?

    If a man gets distracted by this, then better training on focus and concentration in combat situations may be needed.

    So the study concluded that women suck in combat situations after receiving whatever current military training they receive. The next question to ask is 'Why?. ' I am trying not fall into the confirmation bias trap of concluding that women just straight up suck in combat. Is it possible that women could be trained differently to perform comparably to a man in certain combat situations that aren't as physically demanding?
     

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