U Hurd it hear furst...

Discussion in 'The Tiger's Den' started by Don Castavez, Jan 26, 2018.

  1. Don Castavez

    Don Castavez Still liking scotch

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    A Cherry Coke says neither Dantonio nor H to the Izzo are there by June. Takers?
    Please no 'cherry' jokes.
     
  2. ehusson80

    ehusson80 Founding Member

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    I'm in... why not?!... Big money big money no whammies no whammieeeeeessss.....geaux!
     
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  3. uscvball

    uscvball Founding Member

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    This isn't new, though. There have been dozens of instances around the country that have been reported on. The process is VERY broken. Obama's decision to include sexual assault and harassment under the Title IX umbrella and then the Department of Education was dead wrong. Not only that, but his "Dear Colleague" letter set a totally unfair standard of "justice" for mostly male college students.

    Consider the following excerpt in context of the allegations against Dantonio....
    "As explained in OCR’s 2001 Guidance, when a student sexually harasses another student, the harassing conduct creates a hostile environment if the conduct is sufficiently serious that it interferes with or limits a student’s ability to participate in or benefit from the school’s program. The more severe the conduct, the less need there is to show a repetitive series of incidents to prove a hostile environment, particularly if the harassment is physical. Indeed, a single or isolated incident of sexual harassment may create a hostile environment if the incident is sufficiently severe. For instance, a single instance of rape is sufficiently severe to create a hostile environment"

    Just ONE instance can be considered enough for a hostile environment and MichSt had at least 16 over 10 years.

    Think about this particular excerpt in terms of feasibility....
    "Schools may have an obligation to respond to student-on-student sexual harassment that initially occurred off school grounds, outside a school’s education program or activity. If a student files a complaint with the school, regardless of where the conduct occurred, the school must process the complaint in accordance with its established procedures. Because students often experience the continuing effects of off-campus sexual harassment in the educational setting, schools should consider the effects of the off-campus conduct when evaluating whether there is a hostile environment on campus. For example, if a student alleges that he or she was sexually assaulted by another student off school grounds, and that upon returning to school he or she was taunted and harassed by other students who are the alleged perpetrator’s friends, the school should take the earlier sexual assault into account in determining whether there is a sexually hostile environment. The school also should take steps to protect a student who was assaulted off campus from further sexual harassment or retaliation from the perpetrator and his or her associates."

    So schools have to be responsible for what students do OFF campus and mitigate what happens between those hook ups while students are ON campus? Ridiculous.


    What about this?
    "As discussed later in this letter, the school’s Title IX investigation is different from any law enforcement investigation, and a law enforcement investigation does not relieve the school of its independent Title IX obligation to investigate the conduct."

    So even if you call the law in and let them do their job, schools are still on the hook. Absurd.


    All schools have to have a Title IX Coordinator/Investigator, blah blah blah. But in terms of investigating a claim, read very carefully....
    "Title IX regulation requires schools to provide equitable grievance procedures. As part of these procedures, schools generally conduct investigations and hearings to determine whether sexual harassment or violence occurred. In addressing complaints filed with OCR under Title IX, OCR reviews a school’s procedures to determine whether the school is using a preponderance of the evidence standard to evaluate complaints. The Supreme Court has applied a preponderance of the evidence standard in civil litigation involving discrimination under Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964.....in order for a school’s grievance procedures to be consistent with Title IX standards, the school must use a preponderance of the evidence standard (i.e., it is more likely than not that sexual harassment or violence occurred). The “clear and convincing” standard (i.e., it is highly probable or reasonably certain that the sexual harassment or violence occurred), currently used by some schools, is a higher standard of proof. Grievance procedures that use this higher standard are inconsistent with the standard of proof established for violations of the civil rights laws, and are thus not equitable under Title IX. Therefore, preponderance of the evidence is the appropriate standard for investigating allegations of sexual harassment or violence"

    Universities are being given the mandate to use civil litigation standards to determine guilt! That means if a Title IX coordinator determines that it's even 51% more likely that the allegations are true, then the accused is toast. It defies any sense of actual criminal procedure and right to things like a fair trial and an actual defense.


    Another point to consider....
    "OCR strongly discourages schools from allowing the parties personally to question or cross-examine each other during the hearing. Allowing an alleged perpetrator to question an alleged victim directly may be traumatic or intimidating, thereby possibly escalating or perpetuating a hostile environment."

    So an accused has no right to question his/her accuser. That's just not what we do in a criminal trial.


    You have to read the entire letter to understand what Obama did here. It is wrong on so many levels. It shouldn't have fallen under Title IX. Schools should be removed from the criminal process and only be responsible for reporting any alleged incidents to law enforcement. If a student is going to be judged via civil standards, things are completely whack. I have no problem holding a University, Coach, Administrators, sports team responsible for situations that are being described at Mich St. I don't believe that justice is being served using Title IX as the process, nor the withholding of federal funds from schools who don't play the game perfectly.
    https://www2.ed.gov/about/offices/list/ocr/letters/colleague-201104.pdf

    Truly, you can thank Obama for this joke of a process and the unfair standard being applied to male students and male athletes.
     
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  4. furduknfish

    furduknfish #ohnowesuckagain

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    First part was a joke, B.

    Wasnt speaking on Dant specifically, since he obviously colluded. Was specific to why college coaches should have any say at all. Cant imagine many high school coaches outside of Texas would have the balls to adjudicate an alleged sexual assault.
     
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  5. KyleK

    KyleK Who, me? Staff Member

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    ...and he's back to acting like a 12 year old.
     
  6. furduknfish

    furduknfish #ohnowesuckagain

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    Back?
     
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  7. tirk

    tirk im the lyrical jessie james

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    If every AD reported all the potential issues that crossed their desks daily no one could field a basketball or football team in college athletics.

    They have to look the other way. Most things are gray areas and if they were militant like we are in hindsight they wouldn't exist. Maybe that's the alternative until they get control of it all anyhow. These aren't isolated situations. It goes on everywhere and has for years unfortunately
     
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