@Tiger in NC That argument ignores fundamental facts of economics. The first signs that our industries were falling behind was well before RR. Because industries were protected there was no incentive to change and unions together with management continued their dance of death. I was working then and my father had been working for a large industrial concern all my life. He saw the collusion between union and management that thought the glory of the 1950's would last forever and they would have no competition. Notice I don't blame the unions any more than management. You are naive if you think anything but a swim or die choice would have changed things. The period from the first OPEC oil embargo through today has been one of continuous significant change. We have seen the Europeans, Japanese and SE Asian and now the Chinese economies challenge us and which one is in better shape than we are? Answer this question what effect on wages did the doubling of the workforce by adding women have? Let me be clear I'm glad it happened and believe it to have been right. However simple economics of supply and demand dictate that it had a downward pull on wages. I believe if RR hadn't done as he did we would be much worse off today. We can no more build a wall on our borders economically than we can to stop immigration. A nanny economy is as bad as a nanny society.
@Tiger in NC One other point. Things like the drastic change in an economy are never nice and clean. They are difficult and cause harm. One overriding rule is that the longer problems are allowed to fester and grow the worse and longer any correction is. Stasis is as bad an enemy of a society as chaos.
Do we owe more money now than when Obama took office. If interest rates were not so low would we owe more. If the fed starts raising interest rates like projected our massive debt will rise . When exactly do we start balancing or paying this debt down. And I don't give a damn what percentage of gdp it is. So it is the quantity that matters in Executive orders not what they actually are. Great point.. Boy you really told me. You guys sure love your numbers. And if you honestly believe that Obama has cut our deficit in half I can do nothing but laugh at you. So our deficit is what 6 trillion now. Does that mean he just is running half the deficit's that others have done. Is that the point you are trying to say. Here are the numbers 17794 Which is 17 trillion seven hundred ninety four billion debt as of 9/30 fiscal year end the second number is gdp year end 2014 $17,794 $17,522 102% The Fed owned nearly $2.5 trillion of U.S. debt, thanks to Quantitative Easing. This kept interest rates low. Many accused the Fed of simply monetizing the debt. 2013 $16,719 $16,728 100% Sequestration reduced government spending, at the same time the end of Obama's payroll tax holiday raised revenue. The U.S. debt hit $17 trillion a few days after the end of the fiscal year. 2012 $16,050 $16,228 99% Obama extended Bush tax cuts, combined with $900 billion in defense spending. 2011 $14,764 $15,587 95% Obama Stimulus Act (ARRA) spent $120 billion. 2010 $13,529 $15,058 90% ARRA budgeted $400 billion. For more, see National Debt Under Obama. 2009 $11,876 $14,384 83% Economy contracted 8.9% in Q4 '08, 6.7% in Q1 '09, lowering tax revenues. ARRA spent $241.9 billion. War on Terror cost $79 billion. Fed funds rate lowered to 0%. From USECONOMY at About.com This shows the American debt numbers as of end of 2014. Since then our debt has gone over 18 trillion dollars. red said the last bush budget was 2009 so it was 12 trillion if I can read write. And now it is over 18 trillion. So if Obama as you say cut the deficit in half shouldn't we be at 6 trillion now. Our debt is officially more than we produce in a year now. 103% of gdp to be exact on 2014 number. These are not my facts but public information tracking the debt back to 1929. Are these lies. These are public figures. I am so proud of Obama for cutting our deficit in half. You couldn't be more wrong. So let me get this straight. It took all the presidents leading up to Obama to run up 12 trillion. And he has done more than 6 trillion himself. And he still gets to add this year to his totals. I would give Obama a break if he had just started balancing the budget. Or coming close. If he had started making tough decision's to stop giving all this money we don't have to all these countries. What have I missed here. All these lies I have told.
Nicely done @CalcoTiger sometimes you have to hit them with a board, and then there are these 2 that still won't get it.
