Trump Tax Cuts & Tariffs

Discussion in 'Free Speech Alley' started by Tiger in NC, Aug 27, 2019.

  1. Tiger in NC

    Tiger in NC It's Been Long Enough

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    So you don't believe that the deficit was at roughly 600 billion when Obama left office and now, two years later under Trump, it is at 1.1 trillion? Because those are facts pal.

    Slice and dice it how you like but the numbers don't lie. Trump has doubled the deficit in two short years and guys like you have cheered him on. I cited some of your posts from 2012 just the other day where you were railing against Obama for his deficits....which by the way were half of what Trump's are....but now you sing a different tune. You are a hypocrite and nothing you say at this point will change that. Numbers are pesky things my friend. Pesky....
     
  2. Winston1

    Winston1 Veteran Member

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    @Tiger in NC you've written a mouthful (to mix metaphors) and while there is sense in somethings you post there’s some nonsense too. You’re right about the hypocrisy of many who lambasted Obama for so much...and very much deserved yet change tune when Trump does the same, like unconstitutional executive orders exerting no control of the budget process, etc.
    However you did touch on two sensitive issues...sensitive to me anyway. First your comment on religion I find disgusting. To call believers liars or imply followers are fools is insulting....to all religions and religious. Belief in God and the tenets of a religion is a matter of faith. As with any endeavor there are charlatans and hustlers but I find most believers and clergy truly devout and faithful. Yes they’re mortals and fall short of the ideal but they strive for better. That is the best part of religion, that it demands we try to reach for the ideals of godhead. You don’t have to believe...be agnostic or atheist but to insult those of faith shows you to be ignorant and bigoted.
    My other serious quarrel is pertaining to abortion. I believe no right is absolute the way that abortion rights activists claim. Certainly no other right enumerated or non enumerated is. Why should abortion be? Also what makes the result of rape or incest so less important that any other fetus? I acknowledge that abortion will happen and decisions are largely in the hands of the woman. I really have no problem. I also have no problem with medically mandated abortion is fine whether because of the fetus condition or the woman’s. That lasts throughout pregnancy. However as a normal pregnancy progresses I believe the fetus should be considered. Viability is back into the second trimester and outcomes of very early births are getting better and better. At some time and frankly I don’t know where abortion on demand can’t hold. We need some mechanism to consider the fetus in these few cases. BTW laws, jail and condemnation aren’t the answer. Unfortunately neither side is willing to compromise so nothing will change.
     
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  3. LSUpride123

    LSUpride123 Boobies make everything A OK!!!

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    The nation was FOUNDED on Christianity as the core principles and yet, we allow for all religion and you fucking over here with “your side” bullshit and extreme examples.

    You are so small minded to miss the point beyond the fact that while we were founded as a Christian nation, we did not dictate morals. The Christian values were accepted as the social moral code WITHOUT legislation.

    Abortion, for me has shit to do with religion, it’s a human. Period.

    Btw. From Beto

    https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/...erm-birth-is-a-decision-for-the-woman-to-make
     
  4. LSUpride123

    LSUpride123 Boobies make everything A OK!!!

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    Funny, Obama still holds the record for the single most deficit by of any president. I mean, if you wish to use "hard" numbers..... Maybe Trump can break that Obama accomplishment as well his next term.


    Its called a ratio for a reason. Care to tell me the GDP difference in Obama vs Trump?

    You wouldn't like Obama's average Deficit to GDP ratio compared to Trumps if you took the time to look at it all.
     
  5. Winston1

    Winston1 Veteran Member

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    Many of you take issue with my criticism of Trump’s actions because he’s not Hilary or what would the liberals do. I understand but think you’re being short sighted. He has built on Obama’s unconstitutional use of Executative powers especially the emergency powers act. Not only is this wrong in and of itself but it has further opened the door to the next democrat in office. Think about the things Kamala Harris, Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders have promised. Do you really think one or one like them won’t be elected in the next few years? You’re fooling yourself if you don’t. Be careful what you ask for.
    This article explains it much better than I. Our system was meant to make changes deliberately not too quickly. What Obama and Trump have done is lose patience and cut the knot to gain their objectives. This way leads to dictatorship and loss of freedom. ...BTW I will say I told you so when you bitch about what dictator AOC does just before you dragged to the gulag.
    https://apple.news/A8hwG-07FSeKRqYodGHoWhQ
     
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  6. LSUpride123

    LSUpride123 Boobies make everything A OK!!!

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    Dictatorship. Lol. Oh Lort.
     
  7. Winston1

    Winston1 Veteran Member

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    According to your comments we’re under the control of the “deep state “ already....it’s a small step. It’s also the inevitable end unless Congress gains some balls and reassert sits constitutional rights and powers. They’ve been ceding power to the executive for 100 years.
     
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  8. Tiger in NC

    Tiger in NC It's Been Long Enough

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    I am not a fan of executive orders and their use has been abused by both Republican and Democratic Presidents. I'd like to see us to do something to reign in their use but it will require that the opposition party not obstruct every little item but it is also a symptom of our societies "want-it-all-NOW" attitude.

    I'm sorry if this offends you Winston. I can tell that you are very sincere about your faith and, having grown up the son of a baptist preacher, I know that religion or "the church" very often fails to act with the sincerity of it's congregation. I know a lot of good people who are among the faithful and attend services regularly, including just about all of my family but myself, my wife and our kids. When I speak about religion I do so in a larger context to include all religions and in a strictly historical sense, religion has been the catalyst for a lot of wars, genocide and excuses for persecuting other humans. Today, I loathe the place the church has taken in our politics because as surely as @LSUpride123 says that he deplores government trying to legislate morality, that is precisely what the church has set out to do over the past 40 years or so. As much as it concerns you when some of the more left leaning Democratic candidates talk about socializing aspects of our economy, it troubles me equally to think that there is a voting bloc who likely wants a theocratic government where everyone has to live by their religious values.

    exactly, and we cannot base our politics off of faith. as a secular democracy we owe it to our citizens to base things on facts.

    I actually am a believer but I do not subscribe to any particular religion or faith. I believe that there is a creator, not a bi-polar teenager like the Bible and other religious texts make it out to be.

    I'm glad you brought this up. My position on abortion is this: a woman should have the right to choose up to a certain point of the pregnancy, when it should be out of her hands unless there is a medically sound reason, which would include the doctor informing the woman and her family of the risks and then she is allowed to choose. Lately there has been a lot of talk about states that are allowing abortion after the child is born but there is absolutely no corroborating evidence to support that. I do not support late term abortions at all unless it is medically necessary.....at which point the decision should be left to the woman and her family in consult with her doctors and shouldn't be decided by the state. That being said, there are also states out there who want to ban ALL abortions no matter the cause and I find that especially narrow also. My wife and I have some dear friends, devoutly Catholic and the parents of 8 children. Two years ago she developed a felopian (sp?) tube pregnancy that her doctors told her would never develop past a blob but could kill her if not removed. The procedure she went through is officially considered an abortion even though there is no viability there whatsoever. This is a more nuanced issue than the black and white of allowing all abortions or none at all.
     
  9. Tiger in NC

    Tiger in NC It's Been Long Enough

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    No it wasn't but this is one of the lies that the religious like to tell themselves. Our founding fathers were primarily Deists. In a letter to John Adams dated April 11, 1823, Thomas Jefferson wrote:
    "The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus by the Supreme Being in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter. ... But we may hope that the dawn of reason and freedom of thought in these United States will do away with all this artificial scaffolding...."
    Further our founding fathers wrote the Constitution without any mention of God or the Almighty or any other synonym for a supreme being. In fact you can look at the Declaration of Independence, the Federalist Papers, the Constitution and the Articles of Confederation and there isn't a single mention of God. The belief that the country was founded on Christianity is a relatively new phenomenon. The term in God we trust was put on our coins in 1861 but it wouldn't be until 1954 that the term was placed into the Pledge of Allegiance. Then it wasn't until the Reagan presidency that Christians began weaponizing their religion against anyone they perceived to be out of the purview of the church's rules.

    I'm small minded? You are the one who is advocating that we should all just read this one book and everything will be all better.

    In your mind maybe and perhaps in the mind of other Christians but let's not be disingenuous here....this country was not founded on Christian principles. It was founded partially on religious freedom. That's a far cry from Christianity.
     
  10. LSUpride123

    LSUpride123 Boobies make everything A OK!!!

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    I don’t think you know what deep state means.
     

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