It's debatable whether they were traitors or not. The concept of secession was an open question at that time. There were northerners who advocated secession themselves. Many advocated letting the south go. It was openly debated that if states willingly join the union and the constitution gave them some sovereignty at least they had the right to annul the deal. It was only Lincoln's great will that settled the question. He never called southerners even those in arms traitors. In addition all southerners who bore arms were granted veterans status after the war. I would rather rely on the word of people who were present at the time and Abraham Lincoln one f the two greatest presidents the country has had. BTW I believe the other was George Washington......oops a slave owner.
He delayed at least as long as Trump did Saturday and failed to mention that it was an act of terrorism.
Uh.... but they were traitors. Just not to America. And can't you see Lee and Jackson at the time likening themselves to Washington, Jefferson,Adams etc? What was it that Churchill said? History will be kind to me because I'm the one writing it.
But it is not today and secession is widely seen as illegal, even by the standards of the late Antonin Scalia. We do not live in 1865. We have supposedly gotten smarter and perfected our Union since then. http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/is-secession-legal/ It was Lincoln's desire to put the Union back together and heal the country and he was right to do so imo. However the consequences were that confederate generals were afforded the opportunity to write their own histories which claimed the war was fought over "states rights" or to "preserve the Southern way of life," while denying the central theme of slavery and romanticizing the struggle. This fomented into a cohesive story that pervaded Southern culture as the South tried to find a segue from the Old South to the New South. This became known as the Lost Cause Fallacy and it's roots are well-documented. All of this being said, you are again harkening to the year 1865 for an answer to problems that exist in 2018. The next sentence in your posts says as much: Yes, and now we can see exactly why you want to rely on the word of the people who were present at the time. Today, August 15, 2017, some 152 years past the end of the Civil War it is easy to look back and see that the Lost Cause Fallacy was just that.....a fallacy. There was no nobility in their loss. They were fighting because they wanted to retain the right to own another human being and for no other reason than that. Lastly, those who oppose taking down Confederate statues like to use the argument that it is an attempt to revise history or to white wash history. But isn't that exactly what White Supremacists have been trying to do since Appomattox: change the story, make it about something other than slavery?
Irrelevant. There is no comparison between our struggle for Independence as a nation and the attempt to sabotage that nation in order to retain the right to own another human being. Also irrelevant and for the same reason I listed above. The morality of the two causes are at opposite ends of the spectrum. Whether or not Lee and Jackson fancied themselves as patriots doesn't really matter; their cause stained any noble intentions they might have had. Jesus, I can't believe I have to explain this to you. And if you knew enough about Civil War history you would know that both Lee and Jackson had the opportunity to write their own accounts of history which, in many ways, has led to the problems we have today with dumb ass rednecks believing that the Civil War was actually fought over states rights or some other made-up bull shit.
Here is Obama's statement on Dallas.....please try and tell me how this is anything like what we heard today......please..... OBAMA: Good morning, everybody. Let me begin by thanking Presidents Tusk and Juncker for the opportunity to meet today. With your understanding, I want to begin with a few words about the situation back in the United States, specifically the situation in Dallas, Texas. My team has been keeping me updated throughout the morning of the evening in Dallas. I spoke this morning with Mayor Rawlings of Dallas to convey the deepest condolences of the American people. I told him that the federal government will provide whatever assistance Dallas may need as it deals with this tremendous tragedy. We still don't know all the facts. What we do know is that there has been a vicious, calculated and despicable attack on law enforcement. Police in Dallas were on duty, doing their jobs, keeping people safe during peaceful protests. These law enforcement officers were targeted, and nearly a dozen officers were shot. Five were killed. Other officers and at least one civilian were wounded -- some are in serious condition, and we are praying for their recovery. As I told Mayor Rawlings, I believe that I speak for every single American when I say that we are horrified over these events, and that we stand united with the people and the police department in Dallas. According to police, there are multiple suspects. We will learn more, undoubtedly, about their twisted motivations. But let's be clear: There is no possible justification for these kinds of attacks or any violence against law enforcement. The FBI is already in touch with the Dallas police, and anyone involved in these senseless murders will be held fully accountable. Justice will be done. I will have more to say about this as the facts become more clear. For now, let me just say that even as yesterday I spoke about our need to be concerned, as all Americans, about racial disparities in our criminal justice system, I also said yesterday that our police have an extraordinarily difficult job and the vast majority of them do their job in outstanding fashion. I also indicated the degree to which we need to be supportive of those officers who do their job each and every day, protecting us and protecting our communities. Today is a wrenching reminder of the sacrifices that they make for us. We also know that when people are armed with powerful weapons, unfortunately it makes attacks like these more deadly and more tragic. And in the days ahead, we're going to have to consider those realities as well. In the meantime, today our focus is on the victims and their families. They are heartbroken. The entire city of Dallas is grieving. Police across America, which is a tight-knit family, feels this loss to their core. And we're grieving with them. I'd ask all Americans to say a prayer for these officers and their families. Keep them in your thoughts. And as a nation, let's remember to express our profound gratitude to our men and women in blue -- not just today, but every day.
The vast majority of guys holding guns in that war did not and would not ever own a slave. They were motivated by states rights. You can argue that the leaders were motivated by owning slaves, but the average joe wasn't. The statue that was pulled down in Durham was an average joe soldier. That was very idiotic.
