This kind of thinking is becoming the norm

Discussion in 'Free Speech Alley' started by DoctorDave, Apr 21, 2012.

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  1. martin

    martin Banned Forever

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    right, if you say so dude.

    "toxins" is a silly word to use in this context. chlorine is a terrible toxin if you breathe it, but lovely disinfectant if you put it in a swimming pool. plutonium is a very useful item that is very useful for certain things. water is great but drink too much and you die of hypoanatremia. water is a toxin.

    anyways, when we shift things around, we may change the way the earth is working a little. whether we make it worse, i duno about that. burning things that emit carbon really improves the lives of humans. cheap fuel will help bring millions out of poverty. will it kill millions with warming? doubt it. but even if it did, would have been worth it? and if we are to spend money on "fixing" the amount of carbon will that hurt us ? isnt the greatest problem in the world actually the lack of economic development because it causes problems that can easily be solved with money?
     
    martin, Apr 25, 2012
    #41
  2. red55

    red55 curmudgeon Staff Member

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    Right.

    Toxin is the appropriate word. Toxins are by definition a poisonous substance. Hypoanatremia is a metabolic condition of low sodium in the cells caused by excess water intake and has nothing to do with toxicity.

    I have no objection to this statement in principle, even though it is filled with flaws. But I must point out that it in no way challenges the scientific fact of the existence of global warming.
     
    red55, Apr 25, 2012
    #42
  3. martin

    martin Banned Forever

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    water is toxic, this is beyond dispute. hyponatremia is the mechanism by which the toxic water kills you. water is by definition a poison. so is oxygen. so is carbon. but also these things are necessary for life. so it simple mided to say "we are pumping toxins in the air". toxic to who? how much?

    isnt it true that the primary causes of global warming are water vapor and carbon dioxide in the atmosphere? those things are not really "toxins" in any real dangerous sense. the issue is not really about "toxins". climate change is about the way the atmosphere works, it isnt about how "toxins" are being produced and emitted.

    you can give your car too much gas and drive into a tree if you want. and the cause would be toxic gasoline burning too fast in your engine and pushing you into a tree. but thats a stupid way to look at it. the issue about the physics of heat on earth. has nothing really to do with "toxins". out toxins, it would be about poor management of temperature conditions in my local atmosphere.
     
    martin, Apr 25, 2012
    #43
  4. martin

    martin Banned Forever

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    also wikipedia does not agree with your assertion that plutonium is a toxin.

    A toxin (from Greek: τοξικόν toxikon) is a poisonous substance produced within living cells or organisms;[1][2] man-made substances created by artificial processes are thus excluded.
     
    martin, Apr 25, 2012
    #44
  5. red55

    red55 curmudgeon Staff Member

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    Water is the least toxic compound existing and is not a poison at all. It is overindulgence that kills people, be it water or any other substance. If you consume too much you can die. But water is not a poison by definition.

    wa·ter (wô[​IMG]t[​IMG]r, w[​IMG]t[​IMG][​IMG]r)
    n.
    1. A clear, colorless, odorless, and tasteless liquid, H2O, essential for most plant and animal life and the most widely used of all solvents. Freezing point 0°C (32°F); boiling point 100°C (212°F); specific gravity (4°C) 1.0000; weight per gallon (15°C) 8.338 pounds (3.782 kilograms).
    2.
    a. Any of various forms of water: waste water.
    b. Naturally occurring mineral water, as at a spa. Often used in the plural.
    3.
    a. A body of water such as a sea, lake, river, or stream.
    b. waters A particular stretch of sea or ocean, especially that of a state or country: escorted out of British waters.
    4.
    a. A supply of water: had to turn off the water while repairing the broken drain.
    b. A water supply system.
    5.
    a. Any of the fluids normally secreted from the body, such as urine, perspiration, tears, or saliva.
    b. A fluid present in a body part in abnormal quantities as a result of injury or disease: water on the knee.
    c. The fluid surrounding a fetus in the uterus; amniotic fluid.
    6. An aqueous solution of a substance, especially a gas: ammonia water.
    7. A wavy finish or sheen, as of a fabric or metal.
    8.
    a. The valuation of the assets of a business firm beyond their real value.
    b. Stock issued in excess of paid-in capital.
    9.
    a. The transparency and luster of a gem.
    b. A level of excellence.​
     
    red55, Apr 25, 2012
    #45
  6. red55

    red55 curmudgeon Staff Member

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    You can call it a toxicant if you wish to split hairs. It does not change the fact that Plutonoium is perhaps the most toxic substance known.

    Check Wikipedia for Plutonium and scroll down to the section called "toxicity".
     
    red55, Apr 25, 2012
    #46
  7. martin

    martin Banned Forever

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    exactly. you now understand the futility of using the word "toxin" when discussing global warming. water vapor is a major cause of the greenhouse effect. the other alleged cause is carbon, which is the basis of organic life.
     
    martin, Apr 25, 2012
    #47
  8. MLUTiger

    MLUTiger Secular Humanist

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    It's not just a warmer earth that's bad, but it's a colder earth as well. It's not about hot or cold, but drastic changes in climate. We don't fully understand it, but that's not really a good reason to not give a ****.
     
    MLUTiger, Apr 25, 2012
    #48
  9. red55

    red55 curmudgeon Staff Member

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    Irrelevant. I never used the word toxins in discussing global warming, nobody did. Toxicity is not the issue with global warming.

    MLU mentioned toxins in discussing environmental pollution in general. Climate change is not the only environmental issue, you know. The poisoning of the air, land , and sea is another issue entirely.
     
    red55, Apr 26, 2012
    #49
  10. DoctorDave

    DoctorDave Guest

    See the attached chart. I got the data to make this from http://1.usa.gov/IjO3NY.

    It shows a DECREASE of 0.7°/century! No global warming here. With no big cities
    to create a heat island bias, a true picture of temperature over the last 100 years emerges.

    Courtesy of the National Climatic Data Center.
     

    Attached Files:

    DoctorDave, Apr 28, 2012
    #50
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