The truth about Pearl Harbor and how FDR provoked the Japanese

You know I have decided a long time ago that civil discourse on these internet political message boards is impossible and that any kind of "interesting" and "stimulating" exchange of ideas is a hopeless goal.

I have come to the conclusion that the only thing one can accomplish here is to get the other side so angry they cannot see straight.

I think I am getting better.

 

No, not because you don't agree with me but because you are so close minded and opinionated that you don't even bother to check it out. It's not me you are agreeing or disagreeing with but the writers of history. If you can believe the writers of what you have been taught in the past, then why can't you be open minded enough to at least checkout the source(s) of the information for the claims I make.
You all assume that I am just some flake who believes anything that comes along. Like I stated earlier, I have studied WWII since I was old enough to read. I'm now 55 yrs old. I don't dispute most of what cb says. In fact, he is quite accurate in most of it. What I dispute, and the books prove it with documented proof, is that many of the things he talks about happened for reasons other and in a different way than what we have been led to believe all these years. I too believed what has been taught for years but when I read these books, I found sufficient proof that what we had been told and what (why) actually happened were two different things.
Like I said before, it really doesn't matter to me one way or the other if you believe this or not. It is not going to change what happened or why it happened. And what you believe or don't is not going to affect my life one way or the other. I just put this out there and if you want to look into it, fine. If not, fine as well.


But a little more food for thought. If we went to war against Japans' expansionist policies, why did we wait so long to take action? Japan invaded Manchuria in 1931 and set up the puppet gov't of Manchukuo. Subsequently they invaded China in 1936. All this time the U.S. continued to sell them oil, steel and other goods. All the while we were officially protesting through the League of Nations and the Japanese even walked out in protest because of our demands.
Germany attacked Poland in Sept. 1939, officially beginning WWII. Germany did not declare war on the U.S, even with clear support of Britain and France despite our declared neutrality. Even after the signing of the Tri-Partite Pact in 1940, we STILL continued to supply Japan with raw materials until McCollums plan was adopted. Then, and only then did we enact the embargo and other measures called for in his plan.
It is, or should be, common knowledge that Hitler never wanted war with the U.S. In fact, he never wanted war with Britain. He hoped, indeed proposed, that Germany and Britain join together to fight Russia! There were incidents before Pearl Harbor that FDR could have used to declare war if popular opinion would have been behind it. The sinking of the Reuben James by a German u-boat. The sinking of the gunboat Panay by the Japanese. But these incidents were not enough in their severity to warrant a popularly supported declaration of war. He needed more. It was only after Japans attack and our declaration of war that Gemany and Italy, in conjunction with the Tri-Partite Pact, declared war on the U.S. Thus FDR had his opening for breaking his promise to never send American boys to fight a foreign war. Because as he said, "If someone attacks us, it is not a foreign war."
As I said, I don't particularly care one way or the other whether you believe any of this or not. It is no skin off my nose. But don't be so close minded as to dimiss everything out of hand.
Don't be like the person who refuses to try a dish because it doesn't sound good. The only way to find out if you like it is to taste it. Who knows, you just might like it!

Oh, and cb, I would throw you a rope. I'd even give you the sweat off my, well, never mind that.

 

More likely is that you are a cowardly little man who enjoys calling people names anonymously on the internet that would get your ass kicked if you had the balls to say it to somebodies face.

 

Look, Mike, I wouldn't give a rats a$$ if they found out that FDR piloted the Jap plane that bombed the USS Arizona. I merely read through the thread and found it somewhat interesting and added my 2 cents that I thought (puke) Cotton Bowl had the better argument. Then, you lash out at me (and others) for having the temerity to formulate an opinion without having first done enough reading to submit a doctoral dissertation on the subject.
As for your jury analogy:

You are getting your butt kicked by Cotton Bowl of all vermin, uh, I mean people, and you are still arguing. Your jury would be more hung than Lamar Pye (gotta read the beginning of Dirty White Boys to figure that one out).

 

Mike, if you have done as much study on WWII as you claim, then you should know that the questions you have posed have obvious answers and furthermore some of what you posed seems intended to mislead uninformed people.

It was politically impossible for America to go to war over Manchuria in 1931. The US people would not have supported any government who tried to do it, and frankly I resent you bringing this up because you know good and well that is the answer.

Again, I resent you bringing up that Hitler "didn't want" war with America or Britain, as if he were some kind of cross between Gandhi and Mother Theresa as an apostle of world peace.

Hitler miscalculated. Britain and France let him take Czechoslovakia and he assumed they were going to wimp out on Poland also. That is all that happened.

You are posting misleading information in implying that America declared war on Germany first. That is simply a deception on your part. I understand you are getting desperate to find something that supports your position, but deceiving statements won't do it.

Hitler declared war on America FIRST after Pearl Harbor. Then America declared war on Germany.

You again declare that Hitler wanted Britain to join with him to attack the USSR, so he could destroy Communism to preserve Nazism and he could enslave the Russian people.

You act again as if Hitler was just some normal head of state and that his "requests" were reasonable. As if it were ever acceptable for Britain, France and America to join with Hitler. Russia had done nothing to anyone that would have justified such a thing.

Whatever one thinks about Stalin, Stalin had done nothing until Hitler came along to make anyone think he was a threat to countries outside Russia. The Russian people suffered horribly during the war, and lost tens of millions killed.

Attacking the USSR unprovoked would have been a horrible crime. I suspect you are one of those who think America fought on the wrong side in WWII. Most of those kind are right wingers but there is no reason to think some moderates don't think that also.

 

Never mind. you people can't see the forest for the trees!