The REAL reason John Kerry Won't Release His Complete Military Records?

Discussion in 'Free Speech Alley' started by G_MAN113, Oct 13, 2004.

  1. G_MAN113

    G_MAN113 Founding Member

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    Well Red, I'm no JAG attorney, and I never had a brush w/ the UCMJ
    during my 8 years of service. I did, however, talk to my Dad, a retired
    Lt. Colonel, U.S. Army w/ over 30 years of line/reserve experience (first
    8 years w/ the Marine Corps). Over the course of his military career, he has
    sat on the boards of numerous courts-martial, and as a company commander,
    has presided over numerous Article 15 proceedings (non-judicial punishment). So he knows a little something about the UCMJ. According to him, what John Kerry did in Paris while a member of the USNR was a definite violation of the UCMJ. Reserve or active duty...it doesn't matter. While you are under contractual obligation to the branch of the armed forces you're serving in, your obligation to behave as a professional soldier, sailor, airman, or Marine does not end when you put on your civvies, under the UCMJ. You still represent that branch of the armed forces. Reservists and National Guardsmen who get arrested in their civilian lives are still subject to punishment from their commanding officers under the UCMJ.

    The bottom line here is this: If John Kerry has nothing to hide, then all he has to do is sign Standard Form 180, releasing his remaining 94 pages of military records withheld by the Navt Dept. Why won't he do this? What's in those 94
    pages that he doesn't want the American public to see?
     
  2. G_MAN113

    G_MAN113 Founding Member

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    You can argue until you're blue in the face what you think is applicable and what isn't...the question here, is did a court-martial board find it applicable?
     
  3. TigerFan23

    TigerFan23 USMC Tiger

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    Red, I left that part out frankly because I didn't think it applied. In no way do I think John Kerry aided the enemy with supplies. Frankly, I figured had I included that part, I would've gotten jumped on. I hope that clears that up.

    Let me also say this, not once have I criticized Kerry's service. I'm not saying you said I did, but I'm just putting that out there. As a fellow servicemember, I completely respect his willingness to serve in Vietnam. I agree, just because you don't like somebody's politics doesn't mean you can't respect their military service, in whatever capacity it was.

    Now, I don't know why he wasn't prosecuted for his actions - perhaps he was and perhaps that is shown in the missing documents from his service record. Again, I'm not making allegations, just speculations. I was under the assumption that all military members were subject to the UCMJ, not just active duty. I can't understand why reservists would not be bound by it as well. As for operating under proper authority, I understand that Kerry went to Paris on his own accord and not as a part of President Nixon's appointed peace delegation. If I am wrong on this, please let me know. Personally, I feel he was in the wrong if he was seeking to undermine the American peace delegation, in which case I would think that both Article 102 and Article 104 applies. His activities in Paris could be conceived as being in violation because he was, in fact, communicating, corresponding with and holding an intercourse with the enemy, directly (loosely taken from Art. 104).

    I'm no expert on the UCMJ, but from what I do know about, it seems to me that this could apply.
     
  4. red55

    red55 curmudgeon Staff Member

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    Well, if there was a court martial, it would be a public record and not subject to Kerry's permission. It could have been gotten under the Freedom of Information act. Where is it? You can argue until you are blue in the face about alleged activities and mystery documents, and possible court martials but you have given no facts to support this notion.


    I imagine any records that Kerry has control over are personal files. A person's medical records, financial records, and such are things that people have a right to keep private.
     
  5. red55

    red55 curmudgeon Staff Member

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    I don't know either. But if he was not under UCMJ rules and acting as a citizen, there can be no question of a court martial. And if a citizen asks for information about POWs from a combatant, independently of the US delegation's negotiations, can it really be considered to be undermining the peace delegation?

    Like the Swift-boat Veterans for Inuendo, this court-martial business seems to be a lot of wild speculation for political reasons that is not suported by any official documents or reports at the time. And then Kerry is challeged to "prove" that it is not true.

    Three weeks left, if there is anything to the story, it will come out. If not, it is just another unfounded political rumor.
     
  6. tirk

    tirk im the lyrical jessie james

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    Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ)
    ART. 2. PERSONS SUBJECT TO THIS CHAPTER


    (a) The following persons are subject to this chapter:

    (1) Members of a regular component of the armed forces, including those awaiting discharge after expiration of their terms of enlistment; volunteers from the time of their muster or acceptance into the armed forces; inductees from the time of their actual induction into the armed forces; and other persons lawfully called or ordered into, or to duty in or for training in the armed forces, from the dates when they are required by the terms of the call or order to obey it.

    (2) Cadets, aviation cadets, and midshipman.

    (3) Members of a reserve component while on inactive-duty training, but in the case of members of the Army National Guard of the United States or the Air National Guard of the United States only when in Federal Service.



    (10) In time of war, persons serving with or accompanying an armed force in the field.



    http://usmilitary.about.com/library/milinfo/ucmj/blart-2.htm
     
  7. G_MAN113

    G_MAN113 Founding Member

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    This time it is you who are misinformed, Red. Since a court-martial can often deal with sensitive security issues, it is not necessarily a matter of public record. It would however, appear in Kerry's 201 file (personnel jacket). Again, I'm getting this info from my Dad, who is pretty experienced in such matters, and knows a little bit more than I do about the subject.


    You're just making excuses for the man now.
     

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