Obama The Iran Deal We Should Have Done

Discussion in 'Free Speech Alley' started by Bengal B, Jul 17, 2015.

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  1. red55

    red55 curmudgeon Staff Member

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    Well, I know better than this silly shit.
     
    red55, Jul 19, 2015
    #31
  2. Bengal B

    Bengal B Founding Member

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    Maybe so, maybe not. You only have to look as far back as 3 days ago to see another example of a muslim killing infidels in a suicidal manner. Christians and Jews don't do that. They may be willing to die fighting for their country or family but nobody but muslims are so fanatic that they willingly die to kill anybody who they think is The Great Satan. Even the Japanese kamikaze pilots only hit military targets. Yes, Thursday's incident was a Marine recruiting station but what about the World Trade Center. Not many soldiers there. And those 2 wild and crazy Chechnyan brothers? Instead of looking for big American breasts they built small American bombs with Chinese fireworks to murder ordinary citizens who just wanted to watch a race. They had to know they would be hunted down and killed or at least arrested for that. And they were. One dead, one in prison under a death sentence. They and the recruiting center shooter could have had good lives living out the American dream but their fanaticism led them to throw it all away. For nothing. If low level street muslims can think this way who's to say fanatic madmen muslim dictators don't think the same way. They are all Islamic terrorists.

    It probably won't happen but who is to say that if not the present ayatollah then some future ayatollah even crazier wouldn't sacrifice himself as well as the population of his country to try to kill all the Jews in Israel?

    You reiterate the Obama company line that the treaty will insure that Iran doesn't get the bomb for 10-15 years. How in the hell can it stop them when we have to give them 25 days notice before we can inspect any suspected facility? Just yesterday the Ayatollah Kameini was ranting that treaty or no treaty that Iran was going to continue to help Hamas, Hezbollah, Syria and some other terrorists nations. Do you really believe they can be trusted.

    OK, they probably won't do any kind of total suicide but if they have the bomb they will for sure take a much more aggressive posture with both Israel and Saudi Arabia. Israel can take care of themselves but America would surely be drawn into a conflict between Iran and the Saudis.
     
    Bengal B, Jul 19, 2015
    #32
    el005639 likes this.
  3. red55

    red55 curmudgeon Staff Member

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    We were discussing Persians, not muslims. Persians are not as fundamentalist as Arabs and they are not known for suicide bombings.

    Not routinely, its a muslim thing, but they have done so. Hell, Jews have done so as far back as the bible. Samson committed suicide in killing the Philistines. On October 18, 1983, a Jewish Israeli suicide bomber named "Israel Rabinowits" strapped with explosives was caught in the spectators’ gallery of the US House of Representatives, attempting to blow up the US Capitol.

    Well, who is to say that a future Ayatollah can't do just the opposite? Iran has an elected government, you know. The Ayatollah cannot just do anything he wishes. Don't take counsel of your fears.

    Well, you should read the treaty. The accord allows continuous surveillance at enrichment sites and at centrifuge production and storage sites. The IAEA. has the right to visit suspicious sites “anywhere in the country,” but Iran has 24 days to comply with a request. All of the uranium mines, enrichment plants, research sites and storage sites will have continuous surveillance by video, seniors, and inspectors. If we suspect a new site, we must give 24 days notice and then they must allow inspections. It would be impossible for them to restart production with all 30 or so knows mines, plants, and facilities under surveillance. The "suspicious" sites in question are military bases, where Iran, or any country, needs to be able to prevent intelligence gathering having nothing to do with IAEA inspections. They do not trust us either.

    This treaty was for nuclear arms control, it had nothing to do with their support of Hamas and Hezbollah. Sanctions are still in place for those actions. If this treaty works out, perhaps a future treaty to get them out of Palestine can also work.

    continuous surveillanceOK, they probably won't do any kind of total suicide but if they have the bomb they will for sure take a much more aggressive posture with both Israel and Saudi Arabia. Israel can take care of themselves but America would surely be drawn into a conflict between Iran and the Saudis.[/QUOTE]They have had an aggressive posture to Saudi Arabia and Israel all along! America would be involved in such a conflict whether they had any nuclear weapons or not. Iran cannot just go around threatening to use nuclear weapons, especially if they don't have any. This is another irrational fear.
     
    red55, Jul 19, 2015
    #33
  4. Bengal B

    Bengal B Founding Member

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    Just because they're not Arabs doesn't mean they're not muslims. The Boston Bombers weren't Arabs. The shoe bomber wasn't an Arab.

    [/QUOTE]Not routinely, its a muslim thing, but they have done so. Hell, Jews have done so as far back as the bible. Samson committed suicide in killing the Philistines. On October 18, 1983, a Jewish Israeli suicide bomber named "Israel Rabinowits" strapped with explosives was caught in the spectators’ gallery of the US House of Representatives, attempting to blow up the US Capitol.[/QUOTE]

    Why didn't you mention Timothy McVeigh and Charles Joseph Whitman too? A few islolated incidents don't make a pattern of organized terrorism the way the muslims do it. Every race, culture or ethnic group has examples of people sacrificing their own lives for the greater good but not almost daily senseless suicide bombings.


    [/QUOTE]Well, you should read the treaty. The accord allows continuous surveillance at enrichment sites and at centrifuge production and storage sites. The IAEA. has the right to visit suspicious sites “anywhere in the country,” but Iran has 24 days to comply with a request. All of the uranium mines, enrichment plants, research sites and storage sites will have continuous surveillance by video, seniors, and inspectors. If we suspect a new site, we must give 24 days notice and then they must allow inspections. It would be impossible for them to restart production with all 30 or so knows mines, plants, and facilities under surveillance. The "suspicious" sites in question are military bases, where Iran, or any country, needs to be able to prevent intelligence gathering having nothing to do with IAEA inspections. They do not trust us either.[/QUOTE]

    How are we going to do this "continuous surveillance? Drones? Spys? Tune into the Peoples Islamic Revolutionary Telecom Network (PIRTNET, pretty catchy Probably still showing reruns of As The Burkha Turns and One Life to Martyr) Giving them 24 days notice gives them plenty of time to move and hide whatever they are working on.
     
    Bengal B, Jul 20, 2015
    #34
  5. red55

    red55 curmudgeon Staff Member

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    But he was radicalized by Arabs, as were the Chechens. The Persians are a different kind of crazy.

    Because they weren't terrorizing for religious purpose and they were not suicide bombers. Not even the Olympic bomber, he was religious but not suicidal.

    I already told you. On-site Inspectors, satellite imagery, live cam surveillance, and sensors of every uranium mine, processing plant, and research facility. Every facility even remotely related to nuclear processing. Read the damn agreement.

    Not when we have such a tight grip on the whole procedure. If they can't mine uranium, process it or develop weapons technology, they can't have much to hide. No one expects any country to just allow their enemies to inspect any military base, intelligence center, government office building or private home on a suspicion and with no notice. But given proper notice, now they MUST allow such inspections.
     
    red55, Jul 20, 2015
    #35
  6. el005639

    el005639 Founding Member

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    our deal with North Korea was rock solid also. look how that worked out
     
    el005639, Jul 21, 2015
    #36
    Bengal B likes this.
  7. red55

    red55 curmudgeon Staff Member

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    No deal with North Koreas is ever solid, they have broken all of them. But they have paid a massive price for it. They lost millions in food aid, technology, etc. Failed economy, mass starvation, one of the most oppressive dictatorships in the world. Kim has no electorate to satisfy. There is a revolution coming in North Korea too and we only need to wait it out. The little nut job has already conducted two big purges of relatives, politicians, and generals. They are totally dependent on Chinese aid and China is growing very tired of them. They spend a huge portion of their dwindling cash on defense because they have major enemies on their doorstep. They have no allies and are a failed country who cannot harm us while were remain a Superpower who can crush them if it ever came down to it. Right now South Korea could beat them handily with US and Japanese naval and airpower. But they do have a big mouth, like ISIS, Saddam, Quadaffi and most third-world dictators. Don't buy their propaganda.
     
    red55, Jul 21, 2015
    #37
  8. el005639

    el005639 Founding Member

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    I don't buy the propaganda on NK. In fact I said so earlier. the only
    reason I bring it up is because all the reasons you site that iran will follow the rules, people 20 years ago said about NK. Irans a bigger nut case because they are driven by religious zealots... much more dangerous than the short fat man with a bad hair cut
     
    el005639, Jul 21, 2015
    #38
  9. red55

    red55 curmudgeon Staff Member

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    I never said that Iran will "follow the rules". The agreement is based on verification, not trust. If they violate it, the sanctions snap back into place and they will suffer the consequences.

    There are religious zealots among them, but also pragmatic people that want the country to move out of the 14th century or this deal would never have happened, because the Ayatollah was against it all along. It is a democratic country with elections unlike the dictator who inherited his job in North Korea. His problem goes far beyond religious zealotry, he is a certifiable lunatic.
     
    red55, Jul 22, 2015
    #39
  10. Bengal B

    Bengal B Founding Member

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    Now that the Iran deal has been negotiated and we have already given them the farm and we have no leverage whatsoever, as an afterthought now Obama mentions that it would be nice of them to release American captives..

    President Obama called Tuesday for the release of Americans held in Iran, individually naming them during a speech at the Veterans of Foreign Wars convention -- a week after his diplomatic team helped strike a nuclear accord with Iran that did not secure the prisoners' freedom.

    The deal's failure to address the prisoners' status has fueled criticism of the Obama administration, though State Department officials have said they raised their imprisonment repeatedly. The president also scolded a reporter last week at a White House press conference for suggesting he was "content" to leave the prisoners out of the deal.

    Why the hell wasn't release of American a non negotional point from the beginning of talks?



    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...tainees-iran-deal-and-veteran-health-care-in/
     
    Bengal B, Jul 22, 2015
    #40
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