Obama The Iran Deal We Should Have Done

Discussion in 'Free Speech Alley' started by Bengal B, Jul 17, 2015.

  1. Bengal B

    Bengal B Founding Member

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    Israel's position is understandable given that they are surrounded by countries that hate them. Would you rather have a Jewish doctor, lawyer, or store owner living next door to you or a radical muslim?
     
  2. LaSalleAve

    LaSalleAve when in doubt, mumble

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    I'll take neither for 1000 Alex.
     
  3. LaSalleAve

    LaSalleAve when in doubt, mumble

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    Except I don't like Obama. I just don't blame him for everything under the sun.
     
  4. shane0911

    shane0911 Helping lost idiots find their village

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    I'm just saying he likes iran more than Israel
     
  5. LaSalleAve

    LaSalleAve when in doubt, mumble

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    you really believe that?
     
  6. shane0911

    shane0911 Helping lost idiots find their village

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    100%
    No doubt about it
     
  7. red55

    red55 curmudgeon Staff Member

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    Much of it is exactly that. You seem to love Israel so much that you cannot perceive them to have any faults, which are many. Worse you think that whatever is in their best interests are in our best interests, which is dead wrong. Conversely, you think that Iran should not behave in their own interests, should not fear Israel, and must always be liars, cheats, and sinners. The world is not that simple, amigo. To sort it out, one must be aware of the interests, fears, ambitions, history, geography, and politics of all the parties.

    I have forgotten nothing. The mistake is to fail to understand your enemies as well as your allies. You have to be able to think as they think to see where they are coming from. Both Israel and Iran have real grievances and both have tried to influence us to their own ends. Israel deliberately sank a US ship and killed Americans in 1967. Iran held American diplomats hostage in 1979. Neither is relevant to today's issues.
    If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle.” -- Sun Tsu

    You misconstrue again. What I'm saying is that both of them have reasonable fears and both present dangers. To ignore this is to ignore history. To grant Israel "moral" virtues just because they are allies is disingenuous.

    I don't give a shit about their "morality", I'm not a religious person. What I'm talking about are geopolitical realities. Morals are inconsequential and it is dangerous to consider them while ignoring all other factors. Sometimes we are wrong. Sometimes Israel is wrong. By awareness we can avoid much of that. We have to conduct foreign policy by being smart about it, not self-righteous.
     
  8. red55

    red55 curmudgeon Staff Member

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    Is this the only song you know?
     
  9. shane0911

    shane0911 Helping lost idiots find their village

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    Just stating the obvious Hondo
     
  10. red55

    red55 curmudgeon Staff Member

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    This is a ridiculous statement. No President has given Israel more aid and support than Obama. Don't take my word, take Benjamin Netanyahu's.

    “We appreciate all that President Obama has done for Israel. Some of it is widely known . . . Some of what the president has done for Israel is less well-known. Last summer, millions of Israelis were protected from thousands of Hamas rockets by the Iron Dome system. Or his support for more missile interceptors during our operation last summer when we took on Hamas terrorists. I called him in 2010 when we had the Carmel forest fire, and he immediately agreed to respond to my request for urgent aid. In 2011, we had our embassy in Cairo under siege, and again, he provided vital assistance at the crucial moment."

    “In each of those moments, I called the president, and he was there. And some of what the president has done for Israel might never be known, because it touches on some of the most sensitive and strategic issues that arise between an American president and an Israeli prime minister. But I know it! And I will always be grateful to President Obama for that support.”
     

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