The Founding Fathers (warning: quotes are not taken out of context)

Discussion in 'Free Speech Alley' started by saltyone, Dec 21, 2005.

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  1. saltyone

    saltyone So Mote It Be

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    Not the best argument there CParso. It's original, I'll give you that. Hitler proclaimed himself to be a god and knew religion was his largest enemy.
     
    saltyone, Dec 30, 2005
    #51
  2. red55

    red55 curmudgeon Staff Member

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    Got a source for that? I know of no statement where Hitler proclaimed himself a God. I do know one where he proclaimed himself a Catholic and it is certain that he was baptised and was never excommunicated by the Church. Committing genocide doesn't absolve him of Christianity.

    Hitler never renounced his Roman Catholicism; "I am now as before a Catholic and will always remain so" he remarked to one of his generals, and his Church never excommunicated him." -- Adolf Hitler by J. Toland, p. 703 (1976, Doubleday, New York NY) quoting p. 31 of Heeresadjutant bei Hitler 1938-1943 by General G. Engel (1974)

    "If Hitler was an Atheist he was so secretly and did not openly announce it. But let's let Hitler tell us his beliefs in his own words: "My feeling as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter" in a public speech April 12,1922. There is some indication that he was edging toward a belief in a non-Christian supreme being after 1935, but in October of 1941 he said: "I am now as before a Catholic and will always remain so." Hitler widely used Christianity to his advantage, was allied with the pope, and had stated that the Jews had to be destroyed because they killed Christ." -- Nathaniel D. Selby, BoulderWeekly.com

    Obviously, there can be a very wide gap between the morality of Christianity and the actions of some Christians. But this is true of all religions. What is important is the message, not the messengers, some of whom are surely false prophets.
     
    red55, Dec 30, 2005
    #52
  3. CParso

    CParso Founding Member

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    Actually, it is the best argument & I'm suprised nobody has brought it up. Simply because you publicily say you are a Christian does not make you so.
     
    CParso, Dec 30, 2005
    #53
  4. saltyone

    saltyone So Mote It Be

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    That's very true but using Hitler as an example of that is silly. It's almost like you are comparing Hitler's statements to the statements of our Founding Fathers.
     
    saltyone, Dec 30, 2005
    #54
  5. CParso

    CParso Founding Member

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    Both claimed to be Christians in public. What made those statements "not true" were completely different, but that's irrelevent. I'm referring to the concept that they publicly said they were Christians, yet weren't. Hitler is a perfect example despite how obvious it may be that he was lying.
     
    CParso, Dec 30, 2005
    #55
  6. JSracing

    JSracing Founding Member

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    not only is it silly, it's down right sorry as hell. Pitiful
     
    JSracing, Jan 3, 2006
    #56
  7. JSracing

    JSracing Founding Member

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    both would imply a person "A" and a person "B", since the founding fathers are a Group of people with known reputable background and motive, their word is much more reputable than that of a former nazi despot. the founding fathers did not try commit genocide. It's not just WHAT the founding fathers SAID it is that they are also judged based on their actions. They back up what they say by their actions, Hitler did not.

    Again sorry ass comparision, simply to make an argument. No body buys this BS.
     
    JSracing, Jan 3, 2006
    #57
  8. CParso

    CParso Founding Member

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    I admit that the 2 are completely different. That doesn't change the simple facts surrounded them. Hitler & the founding fathers both publicily claimed to be Christians. Did they not? Behind closed doors, quotes by both reveal that they may actually feel differently. Maybe the quotes were taken out of context for the founding fathers, but they still exist and present reasonable doubt as to their true beliefs. Still, did they not both express different beliefs behind closed doors? Thus, the similarity.

    And they both used religion as a means to an end. That's what politics is about. The difference is that Hitler's end was a terrible travesty. The Founding Fathers' end was a great country.
     
    CParso, Jan 3, 2006
    #58
  9. CParso

    CParso Founding Member

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    See my above post.

    Whether the Founding Fathers & Hitler each had a true connection to Christianty & whether their actions reflected that are not at all relevent to my argument.
     
    CParso, Jan 3, 2006
    #59
  10. LSUsupaFan

    LSUsupaFan Founding Member

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    Hitler was a devout athiest. To try and label him as a Christian is just fallacy. Remember over 500,000 Catholics, mostly Poles, were put to death in concentration camps. Nothing I have ever read about Hitler labeled him as anything but an athiest.
     
    LSUsupaFan, Jan 3, 2006
    #60
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