The Federal Office of Livability

Discussion in 'Free Speech Alley' started by tirk, Jul 7, 2009.

  1. gumborue

    gumborue Throwin Ched

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    sure we do. if you dont count the peasants.
     
  2. mobius481

    mobius481 Registered Member

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    Depends how you measure it. I assure you Canada does not have a better health system than us. Note that I did not say the most efficient, but we do have the best. No question. I would love for you to explain how Canada and UK have better systems than us.



    Only an idiot could believe #1. :grin: #2 seems very possible but I wonder what the total expenditures were during this time. I'm too young to remember much about HMO's but why did we abandon that and is it worth revisiting?

    I'll try a more direct route here. Had president obama done what he said he was going to do and thrown money at shovel ready projects instead of light rail systems etc (which you advocated), then we would have more projects going on right now and we would have a better prognosis for recovery.
     
  3. shaqazoolu

    shaqazoolu Concentrated Awesome

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    Wow. Please tell me this is fake. When I read this I was expecting "The Onion" as the domain. If this doesn't have Socialism written ALL over it, I don't know what does. I'm down with building trains and other public means of transportation. HOWEVER, creating these "options" does not afford the right to regulate private transportation.

    Must be nice for the government to have a bulletproof business plan. "We would build this super awesome thing but we don't know if people will use it so we will just force them to."

    This verbiage burns me up. I already have the "opportunity" to do whatever the *&%$ I want in terms of transportation. That's where the whole freedom thing comes in. This is fancy spin that translates into "We're either going to make it unbelievably inconvenient for you to do things other than the way we want you to, make your way cost a fortune or we are just going to ban whatever way you want to do it in altogether." People that talk like this deserved to get curb stomped in golf shoes. It's cowardly and deceitful.
     
  4. DRC

    DRC TigerNator

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    Thats laughable. If their health care system is so much better why are Canadians flocking to the US for care and their practitioners coming for jobs?

    If in doubt, go to CBC.ca - Canadian News Sports Entertainment Kids Docs Radio TV and search "Canadians heading to US for health care" and view the 3000+ articles.
     
  5. LSUAthletics

    LSUAthletics Founding Member

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    If only a small percentage has been spent then why is there discussion within the administration of another stimulus bill?

    Wall Street hits 10-week low amid talk of new stimulus - Yahoo! Finance
     
  6. red55

    red55 curmudgeon Staff Member

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    I already cited a source. You simply "assure me". What makes you an expert on Canada. What is your source?

    We didn't abandon them, I'm in an HMO, but that was the time interval when many people switched over to them, possibly flattening the curve.

    The idea of an HMO was to cut costs by paying contracted doctors fixed fees for specific services--patients pay only low $15 co-payments--and also to cut major health problems by "maintaining" health over time with regular checkups and screenings to catch problems early. But you have to use their contracted doctors and had to have your primary care doctor's authorization before seeing any specialist or being admitted to the hospital for any non-emergency care.

    Some people still prefer the 80% compensation of regular insurance so that they can use any physician or specialist and have fewer restrictions and permissions to deal with.

    But HMOs have evolved over the years to become more like traditional insurance. Almost all doctors in town are contracted, so you can pick from a wide selection, you no longer need permission to see a specialist--you just pay a $25 co-payment, and . . . it costs more than it used to.

    Not exactly. I think people thought that "shovel ready" meant that work could start immediately. It doesn't. Bid specs still have to be drawn up, bids have to be let out, materials have to be ordered, and people have to be hired and trained. The process takes months and months and can't really be rushed unless you advocate hiring people to sit on their hands for 6 months until subcontractors deliver material, permits are processed, rights of way are bought, etc.

    Shovel-ready just means that the political choice has been made and engineering plans already exist so there aren't two or three years of political haggling and design work that has to happen before materials and contractors can be purchased and construction begun.
     
  7. mobius481

    mobius481 Registered Member

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    Actually, your source wasn't pertinent. It says everyone has a better healthcare system than us and then explained how inefficient our healthcare system is. I agree, we're inefficient as hell but our level of healthcare is the best in the world. So you need a surgery. In the US, you'll get it done next week. Not in Canada.....

    Surgical wait times down but Canadians still waiting more than 17 weeks for treatment

    121 days average...if you're still alive.

    Here's some more reading that might show it in a different light.

    Free Market Cure - Why Isn't Government Health Care the Answer?

    The methodology on the WHO report took into account everything from the amount of money paid to number of uninsured citizen's. There's no question we lack there, but we do have the best healthcare in the world.


    That's you're definition, not the US Governments definition...

    http://transportation.house.gov/Media/File/Full Committee/Stimulus/shovel ready projects.pdf
     
  8. Bandit88

    Bandit88 Old Enough to Know Better

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    US health care is the best in the world.

    Our system isn't rated as high as France, Italy and others because we aren't socialists. So some folks don't get the best care because they're not covered.

    That will always be the sticking point. The Socialists among us want universal coverage. So they focus on the nebulous "system".

    I've lived and travelled in many countries, France and Italy among them. I'd feel comfy going into their Emer rooms. But given the choice, I'd go to an American doctor in an American facility.
     
  9. gumborue

    gumborue Throwin Ched

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    right. like i said, the best in the world if you dont count the peasants.
     
  10. red55

    red55 curmudgeon Staff Member

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    On what criteria? Where is your evidence?

    Here is a multi-variant chart from the World health Organization. The US ranks #1 in only two categores--Health expenditure per capita and level of reponsiveness. So, yes, you can get emergency care quicker in the US, but we pay too much for that. In other categories of health care the US ranks very low.

    Total Health Care = #37
    Healthy Life Expectancy = #24

    The numbers do not support this. We spend the most per capita, our doctors are the highest paid, our pharmaceutical industry is the highest paid . . . but we still have the highest early death expectancy, highest number of uncovered citizens, and highest infant mortality than the other industrialized countries. We are not getting what we pay for. And 47 million of us get nothing. The rest of us get second-rate care for first-rate costs. . . but we do get it relatively quickly.

    I emplore you to consider that quick access to care is not the only criteria to be considered in saying we have the best health care. It's actually not the best care or we would be healthier. We also have to consider high health costs that are unsustainable in the long run, the quality of health care and the effectiveness of that care in helping us to live longer and better. We fall short in those areas.

    Americans also lead wealthy countries in the number of people who think their health care system needs fundamental change.

    Best Health Care in the World?

     

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