Fine you're a registered Independent. However, from your many post we pretty much know where you stand on all the major issues. From that we can formulate our own opinions on what political philosophy we think you adhere to. It is my belief, along with others, that you are a liberal. I'm not saying you're trying to deceive. Apparently your definition of what a liberal is differs from my own and others. Isn't that reasonable? Besides what makes a person a liberal or a conservative? Is it the label? Bush was labeled as a conservative by the media yet he grew government more than Clinton. So why is Bush labeled a conservative and Clinton a moderate? Would it be fair to say Bush was a liberal when it came to spending and Clinton was a conservative? How can you label Bush a conservative when large portions of his fiscal policies were liberal?
I agree. Bush was a liberal as far as I'm concerned not only because of his fiscal policies, prescription drug plan and the growth of government such as Homeland Security, it wasn't necessary and I opposed that along with the big business bailouts.
Not much of a shocker. Did you know the top rate in 1960 was 90%? I think any sensible person would agreee that rate is way too high. Kennedy reduced the top rate to 70% which I think most would feel is still too high.
I don't have to prove chit. But I will point out once again . . . I'm against gun control, I'm against illegal immigration, I'm against unions, I'm against affirmative action . . . liberals are not against these things. I'm for a bigger military, I'm for welfare reform and medicaid reform, I'm for capital punishment, I'm for oil drilling, . . . liberals are not for these things. I've never supported or voted for Teddy Kennedy, Al Gore, or Howard Dean . . . liberals love these guys. I've supported and voted for Ronald Reagan, George Bush, John McCain, and Bobby Jindal . . . liberals hate these people. Having only 2 political parties to choose from means that I will not always agree with what everyone in either party thinks on every issue. I don't feel the need to tow the party line for either party. I'm a thinking person who tends to favor those people on the right and left who are leaning toward the middle and those issues that are pragmatic rather than ideological. Moderates are like that. Live with it. Now, . . . prove that you are not a goose-stepping, fascist nutjob, blindly following the extreme right-wing ideology without regard for reality or recourse to thought . . . :grin:
These are bogus numbers. The taxes paid by the top 1% is about 40%. http://www.taxfoundation.org/news/show/250.html The reason that it has gone up from its previous averages of less than 25% is that the incomes of the upper 1% went up significantly after the Bush tax cuts. From Fact CHeck.com Look at that source at the Tax foundation again. In the Reagan 1980s, the top1% paid a tax rate of around 33%. In the Clinton 90's they paid a tax rate of around 27%, Since the 2002 tax cuts their tax rate has dropped to 22%. And the numbers not paying taxes are less than 50%. From FACTCHECK.org
It's because you refuse to recognize that moderates exist. I have several comments. 1. You do not know my politics better than I do. You do not know all my positions or you would not make statements about my stances here that you cannot defend. 2. The perspective is poor out there on the right wing, you can't tell the moderates from the liberals from the extremes. Both are to the left of you and that's all you seem to perceive. 3. I support issues on both sides of the line. That is what moderates do, not sit in the center where there is no party to represent us. We support parties issue by issue depending on who is closer to the middle. Right now the democrats are closer to the middle. 4. People usually bring up this issue when they are losing an argument with me. Right-wingers use "liberal" as an insult and use it to try to discredit me among the other knee-jerk conservatives to distract attention from the issue at hand. More black and white thinking. You don't even recognize political moderates, even though that is how the majority of Americans describe themselves. If you cannot perceive the shades of gray, you will never understand independent moderates. The media? Are you kidding? Bush ran as a conservative, described him self as conservative, was backed by conservatives, represented the conservative republican party and instituted conservative policy after conservative policy while in office. You confuse and conflate two issues, amigo. Clinton was a moderate and Bush was a conservative. All their policies reflect this. The difference is that Clinton was fiscally responsible by cutting spending producing surpluses to pay down our debt. Bush was fiscally irresponsible by cutting income while increasing domestic spending and engaging in two protracted and expensive foreign wars and overseeing a financial collapse brought on by reckless deregulation.
Simply not true. I think the majority of this country is moderate with a right leaning tendency. That is true. However, as I've already stated we literally have thousands of post from you and are able to formulate our own opinion with regards to what political philosophy we think you are. Again, not true. Olympia Snowe is a moderate. A Republican senator and to the left of me. Unless you're on the far right or far left then most support issues on both sides. I know I do. This doesn't make you or I a moderate. My argument with you is simple. I, along with others, believe you are a liberal. Do you have some moderate and conservative beliefs? Sure you do. Unless you are an extremest, which I don't think you are, you're going to have beliefs on both sides. However, I have formulated from many of your post that you are a liberal at the core. I also believe your definition of a liberal may differ from mine. So we have an honest disagreement. That's all. So is it how a candidate runs and who supports him that defines his political philosophy? I don't believe this. I think it's his policies. Bush grew government exponentially. You can't deny this. You can't deny that a program such as the prescription drug plan is not a liberal program. Really? Explain to me how support of the prescription drug plan can be described as a conservative philosophy. Also explain how the passage of thousands of new federal subsidy programs during Bush's eight years in office is considered being a conservative? It's conceivable for you to blame the party in power but you're wrong to blame a conservative philosophy that never materialized, at least fiscally, during the Bush administration.
Based on what? Their election of democrats in the last two elections? You only speak for yourself here. And you haven't read enough of my posts if you've not found me on the conservative side of some. Nor does it make me a liberal. What in the world is your point? I'm a moderate because I don't belong to a left-wing or right-wing party. Neither do I vote for the ideology of left and right. I don't believe in conservatism or liberalism. I believe in pragmatism. If you can't grasp this, it's not my problem. Did you read my response to SabanFan. How about adressing it? He sure as hell knows better. Why is it so important to you to place a convenient label on me and for me to accept this nonsense? I might think you are in mindless lock step with an extreme ideology and a borderline Nazi but I'm not dumb enough to waste time trying to convince you of that. You make my point. I'm not an extremist. What is the opposite of an extremist? A centrist--a moderate. By the definition you are trying to spin now, then all of us are moderates! You haven't thought this through very well. What else are you going to call someone who has voted republican as much as he has voted democratic over the past 35 years and who has supported causes both left and right that you don't know squat about. All you know is that I think the democrats in charge right now make more sense than the incompetence of the republicans we just experienced. So that makes me a liberal in your eyes. FIne. Just quit trying to tell ME what I am, because you really don't know me and I don't think you are being very perceptive from your extreme viewpoint. But from where I stand there are a lot of people to the right and left of me. It's not the least bit honest! You are attempting to paint me with a brush of your own choosing because it's more comfortable for you to rail against "liberals" than to debate the issues with me on their merits alone. Sure I can. Don't try to speak for me. It was set up to make the pharmaceutical companies rich. That is why they lobbied hard for it to be administered through them alone. They successfully lobbied the republican Congress and President to set their own prices instead of allowing the program to bid for the best prices like Medicare does. They intentionally made a public program more expensive for the citizens for the profit of the private drug companies. Oh, and they did not fund the program, they just borrowed money from China. Conservatives to the core . . . just fiscally irresponsible. I just did. Honestly, I think your campaign to portray George Bush as a liberal makes about a much sense as portraying me as one :insane: You are so confused. I'm not sure you understand what liberals and conservatives are at all. :huh:
