The economics of gas prices

Discussion in 'Free Speech Alley' started by fanatic, Feb 4, 2008.

  1. TigerWins

    TigerWins Founding Member

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    Let's assume we hit them with a windfall tax. Let's assume we take away every tax break they have. How will that lower the price at the pumps? Windfall tax didn't help in the 70s and it won't do anything for the consumers today. It will only make some feel better about punishing big oil for making so much money.

    We could take all their profits away and we'd still be paying $3 at the pumps. Is the goal to just punish them or to lower prices?
     
  2. red55

    red55 curmudgeon Staff Member

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    Oil company executives have been found guilty of bribery, tax evasion, conspiracy and fraud in recent years. It's not a stretch to surmise that collusion and anti-trust crimes also exist among them. With an oil man in the White House, investigations are unlikely.
     
  3. red55

    red55 curmudgeon Staff Member

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    WHy?

    The goal is to give them some incentive to hold down prices. If they can make these record profits from high gasoline they are going to keep doing so. They have no motivation to reduce prices and it is the citizens who are paying for it because they have no alternatives. If a windfall tax kicked in at a certain point, they would have incentive to build new refineries, cut costs, and be more competitive with each other.
     
  4. TigerWins

    TigerWins Founding Member

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    Who?

    In this 24/7 news world, I have a hard time believing that someone hasn't leaked such collusion or anti-trust information to the media. There are too many people out there who want to hang them and too little information to support such allegations.

    How exactly do you think they are getting away collusion and anti-trust crimes without anyone leaking info? And I still don't understand why they allowed low oil prices from the mid-80s to the early 2000s if they truly do control oil prices.

    You forget the Dems took over Congress and control all the committees? They can call an investigation into anything they want without Bush's permission.
     
  5. TigerWins

    TigerWins Founding Member

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    B/c oil prices would still be where it is today, unless you truly believe they control the oil prices on the open market.

    Taxes won't make them hold down prices, reduce prices, build new refineries, etc. What they will do to avoid windfall taxes is to lower oil production, causing them to make less profits. And less oil production will lead to even higher prices.

    And more taxes might even make them think about relocating to another country who will give them huge tax breaks.

    I don't see any of this helping us at the pumps.
     
  6. red55

    red55 curmudgeon Staff Member

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    Pick one. This is just from page one of a google search for "oil executive guilty". There are about 20 more pages, if you're interested.

    tax evasion

    conspiracy, wire fraud

    fraud

    bribery

    bribery

    It has been out there for some time.

    Senators Say Oil Executives' Memos Indicate Collusion


    Oils giants 'collude' on pump prices in Australia


    Corporate profits are definitely part of the price of gasoline at the pump. You are saying that if all the profits went away the price would not drop? You can't put all the blame for high gas prices on high oil prices when high profit margins are also clearly a factor in the rise of prices at the pump.

    Circular logic. How can they hold down foreign production that they don't control?

    What? Abandon the US market? Not a chance. And if they got huge tax breaks from some other country, then they could sell gasoline even cheaper, right?
     
  7. TigerWins

    TigerWins Founding Member

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    Has nothing to do with foreign markets. The U.S. is the 3rd largest oil producer. Simply cut back on U.S. oil production to keep them under the windfall tax profit cap.

    See Halliburton. You think they are actually giving up any U.S. business by moving its HQ to Dubai. It's just a way to avoid taxes.
     
  8. lsu-i-like

    lsu-i-like Playoff advocate

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    There are alternatives IMO - it is people who are too used to the convenience of owning a car and driving it when and where they like. Poor people and foreigners know about the alternative called public transportation and if it really became an issue more people would demand better public transportation.

    I am a big fan of environmental stewardship, but if the option is war in the middle east or more domestic refinery and production and further development of alternatives, I opt for the choice that keeps us out of wars.

    Also, there are a great deal of countries that pay more for their gasoline and worldwide demand is on the rise. Oil companies shouldn't be forced to keep prices down artificially for the US. I'm really more interested in our government's role in our gas prices. I expect big oil pours a lot of money into lobbying Washington and they wouldn't be spending that money if it was being wasted.
     
  9. TigerWins

    TigerWins Founding Member

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    The last sentence of that article:
     
  10. lsu-i-like

    lsu-i-like Playoff advocate

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    Just because something is legal doesn't make it right. :wink:
     

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