The Desolation of Smaug

Discussion in 'New Roundtable' started by LaSalleAve, Dec 29, 2013.

  1. uscvball

    uscvball Founding Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2006
    Messages:
    10,673
    Likes Received:
    7,156
    Exactly.

    Interestingly enough, both characters exhibit what attracts, but ultimately fails, where women are concerned. Studly hot and brave Aragorn but unless your name is Arwen, he can't and won't be tempted. Legolas, the ultimate warrior and loyal....but loyal to being a warrior. A woman can't really hold his attention for long. He reminds me of the Zac Brown song Colder Weather.

    Nasty, lol.
     
  2. uscvball

    uscvball Founding Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2006
    Messages:
    10,673
    Likes Received:
    7,156
    Plenty of the male characters were embellished too. The 3 ladies you mentioned were all different but integral and didn't detract from the story. IMO.

    Arrogance or confidence? It's a fine line and let's face it, if you are a massive fire-breathing dragon sitting on a mountain of gold, confidence is the word of the day.
     
  3. red55

    red55 curmudgeon Staff Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2002
    Messages:
    45,195
    Likes Received:
    8,736
    She didn't bother me. It was a longer story and there were going to be more characters. But I'm getting a bit tired of the "woman warrior" thing that all the action movies seem to have these days. It's just not realistic. Throughout human history, with a few rare exceptions like Joan of Arc, women simply don't participate in warfare. I don't mean operating a drone or sitting in a missile control room, I'm talking about standing at arms length and hacking at a man with a sword who is also hacking at you. Women just don't have the testosterone for it. Hell, most men don't either. Until the musket put killing tools into the hands of conscripted farm boys, armies were small and consisted of small numbers of hardened men that had the willpower and courage for hand-to-hand combat. But . . . fantasy films must have some fantasy, I suppose.

    Traditionally, the martial power of women lay in their ability to influence the actions of men through their intellect, tact, deceit, and great big bouncy hooters. Elizabeth I in her silk gowns on her throne was a far more effective warrior than Joan of Arc in armor on the battlefield.

    That is the absolute truth. I have never met totally confident people who were not arrogant in some fashion, ranging from smug cynicism to pompous swaggering assholery.
     
  4. uscvball

    uscvball Founding Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2006
    Messages:
    10,673
    Likes Received:
    7,156
    Agreed. Movie makers are going after that all important "tweenage" demographic. Strong female characters do seem to be resonating with younger women these days though so that can't be all bad. My daughter loves
    [​IMG]

    over this....
    [​IMG]

    so I can't complain.
    Agreed. War is a man's domain really. QE1 is one of the most powerful figures in history and she used every trick in her "bag". Unfortunately as is typical, her feelings for Essex led to both his death and sped up the downward trajectory of her reign.

    One of the worst female warriors in all of cinema has to be gi jane. As IF!

    John McCain comes to mind.
     
  5. red55

    red55 curmudgeon Staff Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2002
    Messages:
    45,195
    Likes Received:
    8,736
    At least Tauriel dressed like light infantry and conducted herself in military style. Most of the warrior babes wear preposterous costumes. Nobody goes into a sword melee naked, you know.

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Not even Alexander and the Macedonian gaylords.

    [​IMG]
     
  6. uscvball

    uscvball Founding Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2006
    Messages:
    10,673
    Likes Received:
    7,156
    Katniss is okay.
    [​IMG]

    As is Tris
    [​IMG]

    Not exactly a warrior in the traditional sense, but.....
    [​IMG]
     
  7. LaSalleAve

    LaSalleAve when in doubt, mumble

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2008
    Messages:
    44,037
    Likes Received:
    18,027
    I agree, with the exception of Arwen, she really has no purpose in the mythos except her being a fiancé of Aragorn. Galadriel is important, Eowyn also as she kills the Witch King of Anmar, Lord of the Nazgul, so she has a role. I don't think Peter Jackson needed to do any of that shit to get people to the movies. And he damn sure didn't need to create Tauriel to get people to the movies. It's The Hobbit and LOTR for Christ's sake.

    Now, in the Silmarillion and unfinished tales children of Hurin etc etc, there are a few more important women. Melian is a Maiar and as important if not more important than King Thingol, and then her daughter Luthien who I believe is the only offspring of Maiar. The tale of Beren and Luthien (which Aragorn in the movie extended edition briefly mentions) is the real love story in the mythos. And you also have Aredhel who was forced to wed Eöl the dark elf, the Silmarillion actually has a lot of women now that I think of it.
     
  8. alfredeneuman

    alfredeneuman Founding Member

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2008
    Messages:
    874
    Likes Received:
    453
    At least McCain earned it with his his stay in the Hanoi Hilton. I'm sure we can name quite a few other pompous asses who haven't.
     
    fanatic and Bengal B like this.
  9. alfredeneuman

    alfredeneuman Founding Member

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2008
    Messages:
    874
    Likes Received:
    453
    Clearly you're much more read-on on this stuff, I only read the books. But I agree, the whole love story crap was complete fiction and really had no place. It was decent movie making, but I suppose a lot had to be added to stretch one book into three movies.
     
  10. LaSalleAve

    LaSalleAve when in doubt, mumble

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2008
    Messages:
    44,037
    Likes Received:
    18,027
    I agree, and that's where all the Azog stuff and extra stuff from the unfinished tales and Silmarillion could have come in. Azog was a goblin in the books, so his whole movie arc was fabricated. It's almost like he (Peter Jackson) decided that what Tolkien wrote wasn't good enough and he being a huge Tolkien nerd like so many of us, figured he knew how to make it right. You can imagine why Christopher Tolkien basically told Peter Jackson he had no desire to meet him and that he thought the movies were terrible.
     

Share This Page