NoLimit and Martin hit the nail on the head again. I am a "fundie" and i'm a huge fan of seperation of church and state. Not only does it keep the government from interfering in spiritual matters, it also keeps Christians (me included) from forcing our beliefs on someone else. Without seperation of church and state we would be just like Sauudi Arabia or China that forces Islam or Atheism upon it's people (even though martin probably would love forced atheism, heh). Anyway back on topic. Evangelical christians probably will be put off my Guiliani's social stances, and they are the people who come out and vote in primaries, but they are idiots if they don't vote for him because of them. I will work my butt off to make sure that people will vote for Guiliani because he is easily the best choice out there.
maybe the clergy were the ones actually doing god's will. religion cant really be subverted. since it is all made up, anyone can claim anything about it, and their points are just as made up as the guy opposing them. thats the problem when dealing with a system based on fantasy. there is no substance or reality to use as a reference. anyone can make up anything they want, william-nilly. statemesnt about religion are effectively without meaning. nobody is ever subverting anything. religion is whatever you want it to be. if you can make it up, it is true and right. that is why it is so dangerous.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/bloomberg/20070309/pl_bloomberg/a8o5p2xitqhk http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/03/13/fire-fighters-not-for-rudy/ Since we are talking about Giulani here are some fire fighters from NYC that say NOOO to Rudy and it has nothing to do with Christianity.
If you know anything about the IAFF, you know that they are blatantly political on the Democrat side. This is not an unbiased group of firefighters. Or rather, the leadership isn't. "The IAFF endorsed Senator John Kerry's presidential bid in 2003 when the Massachusetts Democrat was still considered a long shot. The endorsement angered some Republican members of the union, prompting the formation ``Firefighters for Bush,'' a group supporting the reelection of President George W. Bush. About 42 percent of IAFF members are Republican, 40 percent Democratic and the rest independent, according to union spokesman Jeff Zack."
So you don't find it odd that a group composed of majority Repubs jumped on Kerry's ticket early in the process? Here, I'll spell it out for you.. IAFF runs the 33rd largest PAC group in the US. In the 2001-2002 election cycle (President and Congressional), they donated $1,024,425 to the Democrats. They donated $208,700 to the GOP. So again, would you call a group who donates 5x more to the Demos, even though the rank and file members are about evenly split between the parties, political? ooooook http://www.iaff.org/across/news/Archive2003/media2003/041803firepac.pdf
http://www.workdayminnesota.org/index.php?news_6_2945 "IAFF invited everyone seeking the presidency in 2008, from both parties, to address the 1,000 delegates to its annual legislative/political conference in Washington. Other candidate forums have been partisan events, unlike IAFF's. The union itself is bipartisan, with a plurality of its members being registered Republicans. ...... Former New York City GOP Mayor Rudy Giuliani, famed for his role the day of the 9/11 terrorist attacks, accepted the invitation to address the crowd, then declined just days ago." Who knows, maybe those New Yorkers disliked Bush in '04. (like a good amount of the country) My family is mostly Republican and many voted Kerry.
I posted these links because I think its important to base ones decision on many issues and not just the christian vote. While some will wage their vote only on christianity and morals others will consider their vote based on other important factors such as the security and well being of the country. I'm not sure if you are referring to me here but just setting the record straight.
