Temperature Monitors Report Widescale Global Cooling

Discussion in 'Free Speech Alley' started by JoeReckless, Feb 27, 2008.

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  1. red55

    red55 curmudgeon Staff Member

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    Seriously? It seems reasonable to you that a single year of cold temperatures can "reverse" several thousand years of global warming? The author of the subject of this thread shows a profound misunderstanding of climate and temperature. Shane, the article is a blog, it is not a published article in the scientific literature, withstanding peer review and the scrutiny of the experts in the field. The first sentence refers to "anecdotal evidence", for Gods sake!

    Not exactly, it is because it draws erroneous conclusions from anecdotal evidence and it is not science at all. I'm sorry if I seem dismissive, but I know what most of the experts in the field conclude about global warming. I have worked with many of them for decades. I have cited the experts here and it is not hard to find the facts if a bit of research is done.

    If I had found a blog that said The Netherlands has better troops than the US, you would probably be very dismissive of it. Not because you hold your opinions dear, but because you'd know bullchit when you read it. I'd actually be very careful debating infantry combat tactics with an CIB E-8 because he could probably slay me with facts, figures, and expert inside knowledge. Compre'?

    True, we can't stop the world from rotating, or stop life from evolving, or prevent a comet or a supervolcano from causing another mass extinction. We cannot control nature on a global scale. But we can work to reduce our own human impact on the present climate. That is a manageable task, an essential task, and entirely doable.
     
    red55, Mar 2, 2008
    #41
  2. Fishhead

    Fishhead Founding Member

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    Fair enough, Red. That's all I asked for.

    Now, according to the chart that YOU provided...the temperature has actually DROPPED over the past 1000 years or so? I mean, it's obvious to me...looking at the chart you provided...that the last trend is DOWNWARD...for approx 1000 years. Just saying.;)

    But seriously, I don't have any problem believing the earth has warmed since the ice age....thank God it has! I also don't have any problem believing the earth has temperature fluctuations...and myriad reasons why. I also believe that we, as humans, should do the things that we KNOW are right for the sake of the environment. My problem is this----I don't think we should jump on every bandwagon that says it's going to "fix" global warming...at least not without first looking at the WHOLE issue...and determining if it's even feasable...or even neccessary.

    By feasability, I mean this...let's make sure that by changing the way we do a certain thing...we aren't harming the environment in a DIFFERENT yet equally destructive way.

    By neccessity, I mean this...let's not stop doing things that may have a connection to global warming, just to have volcanos and other natural causes of global warming CONTINUE to cause global warming. There's nothing we can do about those things...and even if there was something we COULD do about them...we SHOULDN'T. It is all part of nature...and maybe nature is like Saban...it's a PROCESS.

    I just think we should weigh the pros and cons of things first...making sure we have every shred of evidence to prove the pros and cons. In other words...do we go to electric cars over gas operated? Maybe. But I wanna learn more about the new technology before taking that plunge. There is indeed an impact on the environment manufacturing these electric cars. Where do the batteries come from? What impact on the environment is left from collecting the materials to make these batteries? That's one example of questions that I have...and FYI...I DO make an effort to learn about these things. So far, I am as you described me...UNSURE. :cool:
     
    Fishhead, Mar 2, 2008
    #42
  3. shane0911

    shane0911 Helping lost idiots find their village

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    shane0911, Mar 2, 2008
    #43
  4. red55

    red55 curmudgeon Staff Member

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    Well, that chart ends in 1880 because it is data from ice cores and very recent upper portions of cores suffer from contamination. The curve from the industrial revolution, global deforestation, and fossil fuel energy era goes up markedly from that point until now. In the modern era we have very accuurate instrument readings for global temperature records.

    [​IMG]

    I don't disagree with this at all. I just challenge those who deny that global warming is real.

    But its NOT all part of nature. We CAN affect human contributions to climate change -- which is indeed significant. Nor can we just continue to pollute the planet with toxins and justify it by calling it a natural process, simply because there are also naturally ocuring toxins.

    That is exactly what is happening. Step 1 is to recognize the problem. Step 2 is to accept it. Step 3 is to find ways to deal with it. A lot of folks are still having difficulty with Step 2 but the cutting edge of the climatology business is in step 3 already and thinking about Step 4--fixing the problem.
     
    red55, Mar 2, 2008
    #44
  5. red55

    red55 curmudgeon Staff Member

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    I agree that we have some bigger and more pressing problems than climate change. But this is still a major problem that will not go away and will get worse. It can't be put on the backburner forever. Moreover, it is an international problem, we can't do it ourselves and cooperation between 100 countries will take a lot of time.
     
    red55, Mar 2, 2008
    #45
  6. Krypto

    Krypto Huh?

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    You guys are over simplifying the entire thing. You are only talking about internal (to the Earth) factoring in global warming. You are not taking into account the external factors -- Solar winds, Cosmic Rays and Solar Flare activity. I am not denying that there are internal (human) effects contributing to the rise in temperatures but we are not the only or main cause of the rise.

    [​IMG]



    http://www.dsri.dk/~hsv/SSR_Paper.pdf


    http://www.fel.duke.edu/~scafetta/pdf/2005GL025539.pdf
    http://climate.envsci.rutgers.edu/pdf/StottEtAl.pdf
     
    Krypto, Mar 3, 2008
    #46
  7. Fishhead

    Fishhead Founding Member

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    I'm not oversimplifying it. I wholeheartedly agree with you that there are "external" factors...and I believe they play a larger role in GW than anything we can do, or have done. I also believe that...although we should do the "right thing" with concerns to the environment...there's very little we as humanity can actually do to "solve" the problem. Furthermore, I believe that...eventually...there will be another round of fearmongering going on...probably long after we're all dead and gone...about the NEXT impending ice age.:shock: It's a cycle.
     
    Fishhead, Mar 3, 2008
    #47
  8. TigerBait3

    TigerBait3 Guest

    Ive yet to figure out the huge debate here:

    1. The temperature cycle has been consistent for millions of years.
    2. External forces present minimal changes in that cycle that could present large problems one day.
    3. People don't know the severity of these potential problems and when they will effect the temperature cycle.

    Is there really more than that?
     
    TigerBait3, Mar 3, 2008
    #48
  9. gumborue

    gumborue Throwin Ched

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    there is more evidence for human contribution to global warming than there was for OJ being guilty.

    how many of you thought OJ was innocent?
     
    gumborue, Mar 3, 2008
    #49
  10. Fishhead

    Fishhead Founding Member

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    At least 1 did.

    The question is...what percentage of global warming is attributable to humankind? Also, without human contribution, would there STILL be GW?
     
    Fishhead, Mar 3, 2008
    #50
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