Sugar Farmers hope for help from Congress

those services are not as "valuable as anything" try eating some software next week. Sure we are in an age where computers rule and we "almost" can't live without them. But in reality if you cant eat, or drive, or produce oil, or make guns then you won't need a computer.

the product you are speaking of is still a service and is mostly sold in nations that are/have technology. These things and companies you speak of are currently outsourcing these so called "software" and intangibles to overseas providers. Call a tech support line sometime, half the time you get someone in India. So you aren't even keeping the high tech jobs here either.

here is what you will keep.
housecleaners, doctors, lawyers, truck drivers, nurses, teachers, etc..
None of these professions "make" anything. sure they are a vital part of the economy BUT they need people to service. they can't all service each other.
if all your dollars are spent overseas, your service people will soon be driving trucks in India, because that's where the dollars will be. Dahm you cant figure this out?

 

just because something wasnt manufactured as a tangible good doesnt mean you cannot export it. we export tons of software and music and research and such.

for example lets say a drug company has its factories in sri lanka. the smart people are still in the US, doing the research and developing the actual product that makes the money. so we are exporting our information, our research, our ideas. and that is way more valuable than lots of tangible goods. any loser country can build a pill factory, but only advanced nations with educated people can do the research to make a new drug. sri lanka cant do pharmaceutical research, they are stupid dumbasses. so we are exporting knowledge. which is plenty valuable and scarce.

like pixar, an american company that makes animated movies. these guys make money overseas by the barrelful. explain to me how that is somehow less valuable of a service to the world than something you can physically touch. i would like to see mexicans animate "the incredibles".

i remain unconvinced. manufacturing tangible goods is one of many ways to make products for export.

 

You cant eat software. And there are smart people everywhere Martin. Russians, Germans, they can export technology too. Intangibles are a product I agree with you BUT you can roll them into the mix too. These things are ALEADY heading overseas also.

 

even if i accept that outsourcing jobs is a problem ( i dont , i think the opposite is true), then surely we can see that the cure (protectionism, taxes, tariffs, price controls, subsidies) is worse than the disease?

 

the fact that low skilled jobs are leaving this country would tend to mean there will be a direct shift to higher skilled jobs in the long run. this would seem to have a greater socio economic impact overall when its all said and done. maybe not in the short run but thats always the case upon a change in the land it seems.

anytime there was an a change in america's workforce skill it was always a gloom and doom theory. i guess since change is scary.

they cried doom and gloom when industrial machinery took jobs away from the farmers and field workers. yet you cant say theres people wishing they had those labor intensive jobs anymore.

when the computer age came about i remember everyone saying how all this automation would take all the jobs away from america in a very short time yet you see just the opposite.


a true free trade economy always results in a higher standard of living in the long run.

the fact we can go to wal mart and get anything pretty much cheaper than anywhere on the planet is a direct result of outsourcing these jobs. we can't have it both ways. it seems we want to pick and choose what we call economic development depending on the product produced. thats not what america has ever been about with its free trade economy. i dont think you can be selective regardless the goods as it kills the competitive spirit that is the foundation of capitalism.

 

who is this"they" that cried "doom and gloom"? what history book did you use?
I don't remember studying anyone screaming doom and gloom.
when each of these timelines happened, the people displaced had a new job to go to. or shall we say the population base was needed, to fill the new void.


Industrialization needed people to make the machinery.
Computer automation needed someone to make the micro chip.
basic economics is supply and demand.

they supply and we demand.
We give them money in exchange for goods.
where did we get the money? You seem to have the answers, Tirk.
where is the money going to come from? the government?
what product do we now offer? ( since they are all overseas )

You have to do or make something to get money tirk. How is it that we can sell them software that they make already?
I know they can use our wallstreet. That should keep AMerica strong.

hey if you can't understand the basic economics of supply and demand, that we need to supply something so that we can have capitol to get what we demand then I'll stop where I am. Waste of time.

 

so jsracing, what is your solution? force us waste our money on american products we could get cheaper overseas? that will cost us jobs and money we could be using to help change our workforce into a more hi-tech, more comfortable, richer, more educated group.

do you think, for example, anyone is justified in telling me as a corporation owner that i should not be able to hire anyone i want? do you favor laws repressing us such that we cannot employ who we want or buy the products we want?

again, do you not see that all the cures are worse than the disease. we can talk all day about jobs going overseas, but that doesnt make the only possible solutions any better.

if i want cheap products, no one shouild stop me from getting them, regardless of where i purchase them from.

ecomomics is not a zero sum gain thing. its not like we are getting screwed when we are allowing ourselves the freedom to purchase cheap overseas products.

we all grow when we specialize and allow things to develop freely. it helps us, and it helps our tradfing partners when we let people buy and sell as they please.

so my question is this: if you do not favor free trade, then what solution do you have to outsourcing, and why is your solution not worse than outsourcing.

i cant believe you keep saying this. we are not cavemen, or hunter/gatherers. you can perform other tasks for a thing called "money". this money can be exchanged for goods and services, including food. so you dont actually have to farm or hunt to eat. we can buy plenty of food from whoever is selling it.

 

I keep saying it because "whom ever" may not always sell it to you where you can afford it.
Apparently, you didn't read my post or you just didn't want to understand it.
these Partners in trade aren't exactly looking out for us like you think they are. Sometimes it isn't a US company outsourcing, sometimes it is a Foreign company selling to us. that's fine and will always be done, but again read the post about the munitons plant in elsalvador. It just isn't healthy to buy EVERYTHING overseas. And since we arent exporting as much as we are importing....... you do the math.

and you are DEAD wrong about not getting screwed by buying all the products overseas, the money you save in the short fall will lower your standard of living and increase your tax burden in the long run. so that statement about zero sum gain thing is wrong.


the solution is revoke NAFTA, we were fine before.
The economy of imports and exports will balance itself out without having to go into trade agreements with countries that don't keep their end of the bargain.

 

there is literally no chance people would refuse to sell to us the things we need. am i supposed to believe that every country who makes food or whatever we buy and need would just decide they hate profit and do not want to sell to our massive and incredibly profitable market? thats is like saying we need to store cheeseburgers at home in case mcdonalds decides they hate money and will not sell them to us any more. and burger king and wendy's and every other place you can buy cheeseburgers, they all decided they hate making money.

when people want to buy, somebody will be there to sell, always.

well, even if that were true, shouldnt that be my decision? yunno, freedom?

 

Martin, countries deny other countries goods and servies for many reasons. Politcal motivation is one of them. You've heard of embargo's? Although unlikely my point is this...We should keep a strong manufacturing base not only for the economy to prosper but for national security.

A little foreign competition is fine, it's always been there. It's just different since NAFTA, the trade agreement made it very lucritive to exploit third world countries labor. While the short term effect is marvelous, the long term is it is a race to the bottom as the other young man so indicated. It seems everyone is concerned about the short term these days... ...
thank you. Have a great day.