stealing music, and the future of copyright

Discussion in 'Free Speech Alley' started by martin, Jul 3, 2007.

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  1. martin

    martin Banned Forever

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    martin, Jul 11, 2007
    #111
  2. red55

    red55 curmudgeon Staff Member

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    Give me an example.

    Your ignorance of copyright law and the concepts of fair use and public domain is not my problem. I have explained it here sufficiently.

    What nonsense. Reading a recipe or listening to a CD is fair use of a published product and not protected by copyright. Where you and martin get this absurd notion is beyond me. The authors get paid from the legal sale of the book or CD.

    This has nothing to do with martin's thesis that it is OK to steal copyrighted material.
     
    red55, Jul 11, 2007
    #112
  3. martin

    martin Banned Forever

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    it does, i am glad tirk understands where we are going.

    this is the relevant point. at the point at which it is impossible to stop "stealing", we as a society just forget it and accept that the world isnt being ruined, and we are better for it and that the stealing information doesnt affect society the way stealing tangible goods would. it is a waste of effort to try and criminalize something that is inevitable. the proper policy is to adjust to the new system.

    we do not always make this supreme effort to protect the producers of intellectual property. we make an effort proportional to how easy it is to stop it. for instance we can send a swat team to bust up a warehouse printing pirated cds. but if the information being protected is easier to forward around, a recipe, a joke, a poem, whatever, we dont make the effort. pretty soon music will be in the same camp as the other information. and that isnt gonna cause an IP collapse. it will just mean there are less people we are calling criminals.

    keeping a tight grip on information, it just will not work anymore. not with the technology we have now. like the harvard law guys said in my link above, restricting the free flowd of informatoin is "an obsolete business model".
     
    martin, Jul 11, 2007
    #113
  4. red55

    red55 curmudgeon Staff Member

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    I find it impossible to believe that you cant understand the simple differences between stealing intellectual property, fair use of intellectual property, and free use of public domain information.
     
    red55, Jul 11, 2007
    #114
  5. martin

    martin Banned Forever

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    i understand the difference, and furthermore i understand why the differences exist. the music industry want to push as many laws as possible to maximize profits. the restrictions they cant put into law, they call "fair use" in order not to let us realize that breaking the law is not synonymous with immorality.

    we shouldnt just label something as stealing and the discussion is over.

    if the government decided that the copyright holder's rights were absolute, and you actually were not allowed to loan your books out, and we all stopped loaning books, and writers actually did make a little more money, would you be happy, and would you obey, because artists deserve it? why not, do artists not deserve the maximum possible reward?


    when the riaa contacted harvard, and told them their students were stealing music, why do you think harvard refused to identify or even give the notices to the students. does harvard just not care about a crime happening on campus?
     
    martin, Jul 11, 2007
    #115
  6. red55

    red55 curmudgeon Staff Member

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    You have to invent theoretical situations to complaian about, for heaven's sake!

    Pay Attention! Read...My...Lips!

    Reading, listening, and loaning are fair uses that are not covered by copyright. What are you worried about? Your make-believe scenario is not the reality of the situation. Copyright prohibits you from duplicating the product. You bore me by repeating the same argument endlessly and you reveal the limits of your logic. Geee-zuz, got anything new?

    Sure it does. To quote an op-ed by one of the Harvard professors, "One can easily understand why the RIAA wants help from universities in facilitating its enforcement actions against students who download copyrighted music without paying for it. But mere understanding is no reason for a university to voluntarily assist the RIAA." Harvard is saying "We see the need for the RIAA to enforce copyright violations, but it ain't our job".

    Indeed, Harvard see the need to enforce copyrights, since they hold many thousands of them. The RIAA doesn't help Harvard enforce plagiarism of its writings or its vast proprietary research data.

    LSU simply sent out an email saying effectively "We will protect stdents privacy, but don't break the law
     
    red55, Jul 11, 2007
    #116
  7. martin

    martin Banned Forever

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    you are not understanding why it isnt their job, it isnt their job because harvard doesnt care how much money the record industry makes. i can understand why a theif would want me to give him my credit cards. that doesnt mean i agree with it.

    that is why instead of merely declining to help catch criminals, they used the phrase "take a hike".

    what do you think the harvard professor meant by the phrase "obsolete business model"?

    i am sure if students were shoplifting, things would be a lot different, although according to you they should be the same. do you ever wonder why that is?


    why would lsu protect the privacy of criminals? doesnt make sense.
     
    martin, Jul 11, 2007
    #117
  8. martin

    martin Banned Forever

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    i am aware you cannot answer my hypothetical, because if you do, your argument crumbles.

    'He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me' - thomas jefferson
     
    martin, Jul 11, 2007
    #118
  9. red55

    red55 curmudgeon Staff Member

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    That's not what they said. LSU is required by law to protect the privacy of their students. Therefore they will not allow third parties to use LSU to pursue individual students, nor do they assume collective responsibility for the affairs of the students. Essentially, LSU makes the students aware of their responsibilities to abide by the law, but will neither aid nor impede the RIAA in enforcing it. Perhaps you are not aware of the overwhelming effects of the privacy issue at universities in the last 10 years.

    Baloney. Your hypothetical is just an attempt to evade the reality of the central issue, which you haven't dented.

    You have never yet explained the here-and-now situation of how creators of intellectual property are supposed to make a living and continue to create if their work can be stolen by thieves legally. It is clear that whatever your mystery occupation is, it doesn't involve the creation of intellectual property.

    I think people should be waited on for free at restaurants. Waiters love to serve us and they do it because they love it, not for the money. It gives them free advertising. By God, the cooks don't need to be paid either. Restaurants should give the food away, too.
     
    red55, Jul 12, 2007
    #119
  10. martin

    martin Banned Forever

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    again, just because something can be consumed for free doesnt mean it will not be purchased, public libraries prove this.

    and even if they didnt, musicians can make money by performing live, like a doctor or a janitor or chef, like anyone else.

    i also feel like you are not comprehendin the difference in scarcity between information and tangible goods.

    i feel like i have made my points reasonably well in this thead, and that you are sort of stuck in your thinking. you do not know what the harvard professor means when he uses the term "obsolete business model".


    so i have had my say, and i think a fair-minded person who reads this thread will understand what i am saying, so i will leave it there for now.
     
    martin, Jul 12, 2007
    #120
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