Soviet Union survivor: President spits in face of every U.S. citizen

The difference is that after their source was discredited CBS came clean. They didn't continue running stories they knew to be bogus.

None of the stuff you quoted speaks to the things SabanFan specifically addressed. It all speaks to the establishment of a state church not of an outright ban of religion or religious symbols in the public realm.

The Jefferson quote you supplied is extremely out of context. The purpose of his letter was to ease the fears of the Danbury Baptists that the Congregationist denomination was going to be made the official state religion. The separation of church and state he speaks of is meant to protect the free practice of religion from the government, not to protect the government from religion. If you read the full letter you would agree.

 

The Constitution prohibits the establishment of any religion by the government. The framers acknowleged that God created man and endowed him with inalienable rights. They did not intend for the gov't to act as though God did not exist when in a public place.

 

It absolutely does. Governmental display of any religious relic (i.e. Ten Commandments, nativity scenes, etc.) is clearly an endorsement of a particular religion. It's an incredibly slippery slope. Of course, early America didn't have nearly the religious diversity as we do today. Therefore, specific issues like these weren't addressed. So you shouldn't expect to see modern-day ongoings talked about in the Constitution.

Besides, out of all ten commandments, how many are actually laws in the US? Two? How would it benefit anyone if they are permitted to reside in courthouses? It wouldn't, not one single iota. It just gives Christians a reason to act like they're persecuted.

As much as you would hate to admit it, there is simply no difference between the two ideas that you stated. Like I said, it's a slippery slope.

I do not expect that I would hear a single word had a particular ruling gone against Muslims or Jews. But if either of those religions were ruled against, and Christianity was given the go-ahead, then that, my friend, would be the establishment of a religion. That's why I said that you don't favor the separation of your church and state. You'd probably be beside yourself if Breaux Bridge town hall had a menorah on display.

Again, by insinuating that the government should endorse Christianity and not any of the other religions, you are favoring religious establishment.

 

That is a modern interpretation, and the founders clearly saw things differently. The first Congress kicked itself off with a prayer. The founders intent was very clearly to prevent church doctrine being promulgated by the government. To deny this is perversion of history.

How does it hurt anyone? Which religion does it establish?

You are creating problems that do not exist. Here is an example of the two different ideas.

Religion protected from government:
Government: Hey Catholics... you guys can't say the rosary or genuflect or not use the pill cause we just established that the state religion is Baptist.

Catholics: First amendment. Nyah Nyah Nyah

Government protected from religion:
Court Interior Decorator: A nice 10 commandments plaque would look good on that wall.

Judge: Well that imposes no state religion it just makes a religious reference so we are good.

 

Your light is on but nobody's home. You have no idea what you are talking about.

 

What do the 10 Commandments have to do with our legal system?


Here are some of the commandments in the Bible.

ONE: 'You shall have no other gods before Me.'

TWO: 'You shall not make for yourself a carved image--any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.'

THREE: 'You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.'

FOUR: 'Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.'

FIVE: 'Honor your father and your mother.'



What the hell does this have to do with anything pertaining to government? Going further, why were Gods priorities about him being jealous and paranoid? If he was to establish a true code of law, why not have "Thou shall not rape" or " Thou shall not own slaves"?

The 10 Commandments is nonsense, and has no place in a secular society. They don't appear weird to believers because, well, they believe in that rubbish.

 

Who said the 10 commandments are connected to the government?

 

When you put it on the walls of governmental courtrooms, it is connected to the government. You'd most likely freak out if you went to court one day and a plaque that said "There is no God but Allah and His messenger Mohammed" was hanging on the wall behind the judge. This is the same thing as hanging the 10 Commandments, and is a clear violation of the 1st Amendment.

Secular courts aren't supposed to be pushing the view that only the God of Abraham is the true god, and that is almost 50% of what the 10 Commandments asserts.

 

This makes it sound very much like you agree with me. The thing is, people who oppose the separation of church and state always have to mince words to defend their position. If the founders' intention was to prevent the promulgation of curch doctrine by the government, then why should they be allowed to endorse a particular creed or religion? The two are one in the same, and I think you're intelligent enough to realize that.

It compromises our entire judicial system. If the laws are created completely separately from religion (as they should be), then religious relics have no business being in an establishment whose sole purpose is to interpret and execute the law. Anyone who is not a christian would not feel as though they are being treated impartially. Instead, they would feel as if they're being judged through the eyes of someone elses religious beliefs.

How does it hurt anyone if they are not allowed to be on display?

'Just makes a religious reference?' Come on, that's a really silly way to interpret that. What is the point of having it if it 'just makes a reference?' The Ten Commandments are supposed to be the laws by which christians govern themselves, and are completely isolated by the actual laws enforced by the government. Moreover, it dedicates public funding to a particular religion. Therefore, it IS imposing a state religion on all the people who don't believe in them.

Further, in order to maintain your stance, you would also have to take no issue with relics from any other religion being displayed in public buildings. I do not expect that we would hear much christian opposition if some judge had denied that the Torah could be on display in the courthouse.

Here is what I don't understand. How does separation of church and state affect you directly? Has anyone put limitations on your own personal practice and beliefs? Does it make you any less dedicated to your beliefs? I just don't understand why people get so up in arms about it if they don't actually want their religion endorsed by the state.