Well, so what? Candidates don't make US policy. Palin is making remarks this week suggesting that Ukraine is happening because of something candidate Obama said. With all due respect, this is nonsense. It has everything to do with Bush. He set the only US policies. Neither McCain nor Obama had any business getting involved in an active foreign policy crisis and second-guessing a sitting President and neither did. McCain and other candidates mentioned Georgia and McCain told a campaign crowd that "we are all Georgians today" while Obama was vacationing in Hawaii. But they both made their major statements about Georgia on August 11, four days after the crisis started and after the sitting President had made his statements. Obama: said "I reiterate my call for Russia to stop its bombing campaign, to stop flights of Russian aircraft in Georgian airspace, and to withdraw its ground forces from Georgia." McCain said: "We must remind Russia’s leaders that the benefits they enjoy from being part of the civilized world require their respect for the values, stability and peace of the world." if you are going to cherry pick comments, at least try to match them up. They pretty much said the same thing . . . which was pretty much the same thing that President Bush had already stated. McCain said: "Whatever tensions and hostilities might have existed between Georgians and Ossetians, they in no way justify Moscow’s path of violent aggression. Russian actions in clear violation of international law have no place in 21st century Europe." Obama said: "No matter how this conflict started, Russia has escalated it well beyond the dispute over South Ossetia and has now violated the space of another country. Russia has escalated its military campaign through strategic bombing and the movement of its ground forces into the heart of Georgia. There is no possible justification for these attacks." McCain said: "The United States and our allies should continue efforts to bring a resolution before the United Nations Security Council condemning Russian aggression, noting the withdrawal of Georgian troops from South Ossetia, and calling for an immediate ceasefire and a withdrawal of Russian troops from Georgian territory. This is a clear violation of the sovereignty and internationally recognized borders of Georgia – the UN must stand up for the sovereignty of its members, and peace in the world." Obama said: "The United States, Europe and all other concerned countries must stand united in condemning this aggression, and seeking a peaceful resolution to this crisis. We should continue to push for a United Nations Security Council Resolution calling for an immediate end to the violence." Yes, the same UN Security Council that John McCain said the same thing about! And no this 2008 election rhetoric doesn't mean a damn thing. The imminently laughable Sarah Palin is just trying to get attention again from the knee-jerk right wing. It seems to be working, too. The United States has a GDP of 16 $Trillion. Our NATO allies have a combined GDP of another 16 $Trillion. Russia has a GDP of 2.8 $Trillion and no allies at all. The West has tremendous economic clout and combined have tremendous military clout as well. Russian has lost vast amounts of territory and has neglected its military even more than the west. Their navy is rusting in port and its army is a shadow of its former self. It stood by and refused to fire on Russian civilians in 1991. It may not fire on Ukrainian civilians either. Most of Russian armaments production is sold overseas to pay down their debts. You damn right NATO can stand up to Russia. Finland has done so before and actually won. This thing isn't going to become a hot war, war is in no ones interest, least of all Russia. But the West still has serious political and economic chessmen to put in play. Putin is taking a huge chance with his own people and there isn't a lot of upside for him. But lots of potential downside. He's making a mistake and we're going to let him do so, just like we did with Khrushchev. Soon afterwards, we had someone easier to deal with over there.
Golly, gee... Is that what they do? What point are you hoping to make by pointing out the obvious? My point: It was a remark made free from consequence. That means she has no credibility and her remarks are not noteworthy to intelligent discussion.
Credibility is not required when, in hindsight, she accurately suggested that Putin would eventually invade Ukraine. That is the point.
IMO.....you are taking this waaaay beyond the initial point I made, which was light hearted at essence if you noticed the "lol". I found it oddly amusing that Palin, amidst all of her dizzying and strange comments, actually managed to get one right. It really isn't about tit for tat comments, but the general reaction of the then candidates at the time. Obama was his typical self. Is that good or bad? I don't know but he does not have a reputation as a tough guy and that can invite further aggression. Like I said, Putin is a master chess player. He doesn't flinch and he won't this time. I see very little we can do other than basic bullshit like trying to axe him from G8 because that hurts his ego. The UN and NATO are really not an option IMO, because they suck and they are weak.
Looks like this wont be quick or easy now. Russia is playing this little game. http://www.cnn.com/2014/03/05/world/europe/ukraine-russia-tensions/index.html?hpt=hp_t1
And Palin she got it wrong again. No, I knew you were pulling my chain, but I like a debate and I speak freely in Free Speech Alley. Never take anything I say personally, even the snide remarks are intended to annoy an adversary, not insult an amigo. Well, you suggest that it is bad by pitching Palin's spin. I suggest that Obama's response is remarkably similar to Bush's and McCains response and the actual quotes support this. There is no Obama weakness in evidence except to those inclined to oppose whatever he says. I find it interesting how well-known evidence to the contrary seems invisible to you. Obama stepped up the war in Afghanistan and extended it to enemies hiding within Pakistan. He has pursued Al Qaeda relentlessly, killing or capturing most of its core leadership. He ordered the successful hunt and killing of bin Ladin. He has hit terrorist targets with airstrikes and missile strikes in Afghanistan, Pakistan, Yemen, Sudan, and Somalia. He ordered the killing or capture of Somali pirates each time they abducted Americans. He supported the Libyan revolution with airstrikes and missile strikes. He threatened military action to force Syria into giving up its WMD's. He has gotten Iran to discuss nuclear disarmament. He hasn't given an inch to the mad little bastard in North Korea. As Presidents go, he has been a tough guy. Make your case if you think there is evidence of weakness. The UN is toothless but has its political uses but you are quite wrong about NATO. The Euro's may be eccentric, but they are wealthy, powerful players in international politics and we have treaties that bind us. We cannot ignore them on a matter that involves Europe. I believe Putin is really more of a martial artist. He doesn't flinch, but he is pragmatic and knows when to strike and when to dodge. He must be taken seriously, but like many refined fighters, he is more caught up in the tactical rather than the strategic. That is not a virtue for a man in his position. Putin's focus may be intense, but even Dubya was broader of vision.
Of course he is taking condemnation. He is ignoring international treaties. In the process he is exposing Obama's piss poor international policy. We told him not to send troops into Crimea, and he did it, and there are no consequences. Putin has Obama's number. He has exposed his weakness again just as he did with the missile defense system.
Consequences are coming, have you been paying attention? What did you expect Obama to do? Rain missiles on him? In the end Putin will revert to the treaty terms. This was a Putin miscalculation that will have to play out, but Putin is the doofus here, not Obama or anyone else. And you've got it backwards, of course. Putin sent in troops and then the West told him to get out. In time he will do just that. The Kremlin is acting out of weakness. Our restraint is our strength.
