So Russia is taking over the Ukraine

Discussion in 'Free Speech Alley' started by islstl, Mar 1, 2014.

  1. red55

    red55 curmudgeon Staff Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2002
    Messages:
    45,195
    Likes Received:
    8,736
    Senator Obama's response? How about President Bush's? The bimbo didn't even know who was in charge of the nation during the Georgia crisis! Sarah Palin was never right about anything.

    Not free money. Part of it is loan guarantees (read: protecting Western loaners) and the rest is for "technical assistance" (read: spent on American technical advisors). The EU is spending over a $billion to help Ukraine pay down its debts. That money will mostly go to Russia. Russia has promised $15 billion in aid to Ukraine.

    Mostly it does. It prevented war between Israel and Egypt, rebuilt Europe after WWII (Marshall plan), mostly eradicated polio throughout the world, and garnered much support for US policy worldwide. 10 of America's top-10 trading partners once were recipients of US aid. Much of the aid that American gives, including all of its military aid, require the recipients to spend the money in America or with American companies.
     
  2. LSUMASTERMIND

    LSUMASTERMIND Founding Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2007
    Messages:
    12,992
    Likes Received:
    2,461
    stupid shit like this...


     
    LSUpride123 likes this.
  3. mobius481

    mobius481 Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2006
    Messages:
    7,731
    Likes Received:
    1,350
    Wow, that's idiotic.
     
  4. uscvball

    uscvball Founding Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2006
    Messages:
    10,673
    Likes Received:
    7,156
    Oy. Her comment was directed at THEN Sen Obama, candidate for President, as he was initially virtually silent on the issue and McCain led the national discussion. When he finally did issue a statement, it was weak at best. That is what Palin referenced and on that point, she was correct to predict what we see happening right now.
     
  5. LSUTiga

    LSUTiga TF Pubic Relations

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2006
    Messages:
    32,743
    Likes Received:
    11,273
    Ol Mitt tried to tell big O that Russia was a geo-threat in that there da bait dey done had but noooo.
     
  6. MLUTiger

    MLUTiger Secular Humanist

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2001
    Messages:
    4,606
    Likes Received:
    810
    Putin has enjoyed approval ratings of 60% until now. Only 15% of polled Russians approve of his recent actions. No one in Russia is buying the state propaganda of Americans and Neo-Nazi's are overthrowing the Ukrainian government because everyone in Russia has a relative living in the Ukraine. All they have to do is call to check in on family/friends and get the low down. Putin is not going to look good, no matter how this ends now that the G-8 countries have all but informed Russia they will not be getting together in June if Russia doesn't pull out of Ukraine soon.

    This will galvanize support of Ukraine joining the EU. Now, will the region of Crimea be a part of Ukraine? That remains to be seen.
     
  7. MLUTiger

    MLUTiger Secular Humanist

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2001
    Messages:
    4,606
    Likes Received:
    810
    Palin enjoyed a position of not being in position to make a decision. She would not have done anything differently with the Russian invasion of Georgia either. Best case scenario for her, she starts WWIII.
     
  8. red55

    red55 curmudgeon Staff Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2002
    Messages:
    45,195
    Likes Received:
    8,736
    Both McCain and Palin were guilty of what their President George Bush was guilty of . . . believing Shalikashvilli at his word. The big difference between Georgia and Ukraine is that the President of Georgia was largely to blame for triggering the situation against the advice of the US and other western allies.

    Sarah Palin, Wall Street Journal rewrite history of Russia-Georgia war

    That twit trying to blame one senator for United States executive policies at the time is ludicrous. She is actually trying to blame Bush's subsequent actions on Obama "for creating this situation". Fortunately we are not stupid.

    And I notice that you used Palin's partisan characterization of Obama's comments, not actually quoting Obama. Here is what he actually said.

    I want to just speak briefly about the situation in Georgia. It’s a situation that continues to deteriorate because of Russia’s escalation of the use of military force. At this point I have spoken to President Saakashvili, and conveyed my deep regret over the loss of life, and the suffering of the people of Georgia.

    For many months, I have warned that there needs to be active international engagement to peacefully address the disputes over South Ossetia and Abkhazia, including a high-level and neutral international mediator, and a genuine international peacekeeping force – not simply Russian troops.

    No matter how this conflict started, Russia has escalated it well beyond the dispute over South Ossetia and has now violated the space of another country. Russia has escalated its military campaign through strategic bombing and the movement of its ground forces into the heart of Georgia. There is no possible justification for these attacks.

    I reiterate my call for Russia to stop its bombing campaign, to stop flights of Russian aircraft in Georgian airspace, and to withdraw its ground forces from Georgia. The Georgian government has proposed a cease-fire and the Russian government should accept it. There is also an urgent need for humanitarian assistance to reach the people of Georgia, and casualties on both sides.

    The United States, Europe and all other concerned countries must stand united in condemning this aggression, and seeking a peaceful resolution to this crisis. We should continue to push for a United Nations Security Council Resolution calling for an immediate end to the violence. This is a clear violation of the sovereignty and internationally recognized borders of Georgia – the UN must stand up for the sovereignty of its members, and peace in the world.

    I welcome the visit of the French and Finnish foreign ministers to Georgia as a first step toward mediation. There should also be a United Nations mediator to address this crisis, and the United States should fully support this effort. We should also convene other international forums to condemn this aggression, to call for an immediate halt to the violence, and to review multilateral and bilateral arrangements with Russia, including Russia’s interest in joining the World Trade Organization.

    The violence taking place along the Black Sea is just miles from Sochi, the site for the Winter Olympics in 2014. It only adds to the tragedy and outrage of the current situation that Russia has acted while the world has come together in peace and athletic competition in Beijing. This action is wholly inconsistent with the Olympic ideal.

    While returning to a pre-August 8th military posture is a necessary first step towards resolving this crisis, we cannot tolerate the unacceptable status quo that led to this escalation. That means Russian peacekeeping troops should be replaced by a genuine international peacekeeping force, Georgia should refrain from using force in South Ossetia and Abkhazia, and a political settlement must be reached that addresses the status of these disputed regions.

    Going forward, the United States and Europe must support the people of Georgia. Beyond immediate humanitarian assistance, we must provide economic assistance, and help rebuild what has been destroyed. I have consistently called for deepening relations between Georgia and transatlantic institutions, including a membership action plan for NATO, and we must continue to press for that deeper relationship.

    The relationship between Russia and the West is long and complicated. There have been many turning points, for good and ill. This is another turning point.

    Let me be clear: we seek a future of cooperative engagement with the Russian government, and friendship with the Russian people. We want Russia to play its rightful role as a great nation, but with that role comes the responsibility to act as a force for progress in this new century, not regression to the conflicts of the past. That is why the United States and the international community must speak out strongly against this aggression, and for peace and security.

    Nothing "weak" about that. Not a goddamned thing.

    In fact, if you compare it to John McCain's statement on Georgia, it is remarkably similar.
     
  9. uscvball

    uscvball Founding Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2006
    Messages:
    10,673
    Likes Received:
    7,156
    She was a VP candidate.....that's what candidates do....they make statements.....about the other candidates.

    Red, you are seemingly missing the point I made. Back in 2008, there was an upcoming election and Palin was addressing Sen Obama who was seeking office as the President. It was nothing to do with Bush. Go back and review the dates of initial statements. Obama was on vacay in Hawaii (duh) and said nothing for almost 3 days. McCain was making comments out of the gate.

    McCain said, "Russia should immediately and unconditionally cease its military operations and withdraw all forces from sovereign Georgian territory."

    Obama said, "I think it is important at this point for all sides to show restraint and to stop this armed conflict."

    Does her partisan approach really matter? It was an election time comment. BFD. But his comments are laughable. The UN Security Council? The one where Russia is a permanent member? All is takes is one vote from a permanent member to kill a resolution. The SC has proven largely ineffective and can't even agree on who should belong/participate/vote. So the French and Finnish are going to tell Russia/Putin what to do? Hilarious. They can enjoy a cigarette and some pastries while they plan a white water trip through the Finnish back country. NATO? Really? Russia is a land power and this is their backyard. We only need to go back 5 years to Georgia to understand how badly trained the former USSR bloc forces are. The Russians will roll through any forces this side of Germany. Even the Germans are a shell of their former NATO selves. Ukrain gave up their SS-18 Satan missiles ( 100 of them) the most powerful ICBM ever fielded. All of Europe has neglected its defenses for 15 years. Denmark just sold it's last tank to Finland.

    NATO is not the answer either. IMO, there isn't much of an option. Putin is one of the world's best chess players and this is largely a Russian problem.
     
  10. Rex_B

    Rex_B Geaux Time

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2003
    Messages:
    3,926
    Likes Received:
    187
    Who gives a shit what Russia and Ukraine do. Let them waste time and money.
     

Share This Page