So Russia is taking over the Ukraine

Discussion in 'Free Speech Alley' started by islstl, Mar 1, 2014.

  1. Winston1

    Winston1 Founding Member

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2010
    Messages:
    12,048
    Likes Received:
    7,423
    Their biggest weapon is natural gas & oil that Europe depends on. The oligarchs (including Putin who is a billionaire many times over) and the Russian government have also camped their money in London, Berlin etc which is a two edged sword. Again in the short run Europe is loath to give that wealth up but seizing it would be one of the strongest moves that could be made against Putin & Russia.
     
  2. plotalot

    plotalot Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2009
    Messages:
    1,325
    Likes Received:
    468
    They damn sure didn't deploy this worth a shit. If Russia wanted to hold Europe's gas hostage, why do it at the end of winter? Dumb.

    If this is true, then all this can be resolved without our involvement. Of course Obama will be in line for another Nobel Prize for doing nothing in particular.
     
  3. red55

    red55 curmudgeon Staff Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2002
    Messages:
    45,195
    Likes Received:
    8,736
    Seizing Russian money would be perceived as an act of war, it probably won't happen unless war actually happens. We froze Iranian assists in the US in 1979, but we never actually seized them.

    The two-edged sword is the natural gas business itself. Russia is addicted to the European revenue even more than Europe is addicted to the Russian oil. OPEC discovered this during the Oil Embargo against the West in the 1970's. They called it the "oil weapon" and thought they would bring us to our knees. But they discovered that the West just conserved and found other sources of oil and their own economies faltered without the cash inflow that they desperately needed. They have never even threatened to use an embargo again.

    Russia knows that it must play the gas card very carefully.
     
    LSUsupaFan likes this.
  4. LSUsupaFan

    LSUsupaFan Founding Member

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2003
    Messages:
    8,787
    Likes Received:
    1,207
    Add to this, the US will have tremendous LNG export capacity coming online in the next 5 years. Many of the terminals are in SW Louisiana. Europe will soon have many alternatives to Russian Natural Gas.
     
  5. red55

    red55 curmudgeon Staff Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2002
    Messages:
    45,195
    Likes Received:
    8,736
    Also from the middle east. LNG transport is expensive compare to pipelines. There is a new European pipeline project originating in Turkey but with gathering lines originating in Azerbaijan, Turkmenistan, Iran, and Iraq. The transport pipeline itself would be entirely in NATO countries. Even bigger is a planned pipeline from Qatar that would move Saudi and Persian Gulf natural gas through Saudi Arabia, Jordan, and Syria to Turkey and on to Europe.

    This is why war in Syria is good for us and bad for the Russians. Europe cannot tolerate a hostile Syria in position to block the pipeline or control its gas transport. Russia doesn't want to see a competitor to its natural gas sales to Europe. An extended conflict weakens Assad. Europe must be prepared to immediately back the moderate rebels against the islamists when Assad falters. A free-market Syria is what Europe needs whether it is a democracy or run by a strongman like every other Arab country. This is another situation where Europe and Saudi Arabia have more at stake than the US and must step up to the plate diplomatically, economically, and militarily. The US can lead as usual, but the Euros must carry most of the load this time.
     
  6. LSUpride123

    LSUpride123 PureBlood

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2008
    Messages:
    33,702
    Likes Received:
    16,644
    Oh great, Kerry just gave Russia an ultimatum.

    This will turn out well.
     
  7. red55

    red55 curmudgeon Staff Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2002
    Messages:
    45,195
    Likes Received:
    8,736
    So did Merkle. And the DOW dropped 231 points . . .
     
  8. islstl

    islstl Playoff committee is a group of great football men Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2003
    Messages:
    46,115
    Likes Received:
    9,705
  9. LSUpride123

    LSUpride123 PureBlood

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2008
    Messages:
    33,702
    Likes Received:
    16,644
  10. red55

    red55 curmudgeon Staff Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2002
    Messages:
    45,195
    Likes Received:
    8,736
    The economics can tell us how this is going to play out. Russia is in economic, military, and social decline. The Russian people are proud, but they aren't making much money. Their dictator doesn't really grasp free enterprise or free expression, both vital to an expanding economy. Just look at the former Warsaw Pact and Soviet Union countries that are having economic booms. In 1990 A Polish citizen made 30% less than a Ukrainian. Now he makes 20% more than a Ukrainian. The same is happening in all of the countries that joined NATO and the EU. Putin does't wish to see Ukraine align with the EU and start making more money that Russians do.

    His short term fortune may backfire in the long run, though. The cost of annexing Crimea will likely make the rest of Ukraine even more determined to align with Europe. NATO and the United States bucked up to this Russian expansionism much more than Putin expected. He is unlikely to attempt to take any more of Ukraine. These factors will further embolden Chechnya, Moldova, and Georgia to resist Soviet hegemony. Putin has to keep his citizens satisfied economically if he hopes to maintain his Soviet-style policies regarding a free press and free market economy. Russia has had two revolutions in the last 100 years and the army failed to stop either one.

    China can crow about retaliatory sanctions because they fear any market disruptions might hurt them. But Russia will lose a sanctions war or any kind of economic war. The US and the EU have a total GDP of 35.8 $Trillion and the Russians have a GDP of 2.8 $Trillion.
     

Share This Page