Should we reopen the book on Evolution?

Discussion in 'Free Speech Alley' started by flabengal, Feb 16, 2010.

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  1. flabengal

    flabengal Founding Member

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    That was posted to hightlight how ridiculous it is to use insults and threats in a debate. Was not in the least meant seriously. But anyway.....


    Censorship no....I didn't think I said that. I was just suggesting that the insults seem to be part of an attempt to get someone with a dissenting opinion to stop posting.

    I enjoy this forum very much and I think if anything it deserves more repectful attitudes than it gets.
     
    flabengal, Feb 18, 2010
    #81
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  2. red55

    red55 curmudgeon Staff Member

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    You don't know that, it doesn't mean that I can't know it. Learn a little something about probability theory, martin, you have painted yourself into a corner.

    The universe is vast with an estimated 50 billion galaxies that we can see, each containing an average 100 billion stars for a total of about 3 sextillion stars. Look, If only 1 star in a million has planets and 1 planet in a million contains life ( both ridiculously conservative assumptions) then there are a mere 5 billion planets in the universe harboring life.

    Moreover ponder this: When considering the vastness of the universe and the unlikely possibility that our planet is the only one that accommodates life, if we assume this to be the case then one must assume that it is impossible for life to form by the process of natural development, but rather that it must have been uniquely created.

    For you to take the view that life formed spontaneously on only one planet in the entire universe, is pushing the laws of probability to virtually unlimited bounds. This means that you have only two realistic options to consider.

    1. Life was created exclusively on this planet by God.

    2. Life has likely formed on many planets spontaneously.
    ​

    Pick your poison, amigo.
     
    red55, Feb 18, 2010
    #82
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  3. LaSalleAve

    LaSalleAve when in doubt, mumble

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    whoa, you're freakin me out man!!!
     
    LaSalleAve, Feb 18, 2010
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  4. red55

    red55 curmudgeon Staff Member

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    On this we can agree.
     
    red55, Feb 18, 2010
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  5. kcal

    kcal Founding Member

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    a good place to start is by reading "Religion and Science" by Bertrand Russell and "Consilience" by Edward Wilson.

    these can be no doubt as the the authenticity of evolution but the question as to the author remains.

    the possibility for a Creator is as valid as any possibility, but will remain just that.
    there simply is no way to prove it.
     
    kcal, Feb 18, 2010
    #85
  6. MLUTiger

    MLUTiger Secular Humanist

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    It will remain a possibility because people will always try to rationalize what we cannot explain, but it is under no circumstances "as valid as any possibility" simply because "faith" is not "evidence".

    Black is not white.

    Left is not right.

    LSU is not Auburn.

    Faith is not science.
     
    MLUTiger, Feb 18, 2010
    #86
  7. martin

    martin Banned Forever

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    incorrect sir. we have one example. a sample size of 1. learn something about statistics, red.

    conservative assumptions based on what? you are in a position of complete ignorance and wont accept it.

    unlikely why? because red says so?

    one must not assume that. one must assume nothing.

    or option 3: it is completely unknown how rare life is. it might be terrifically abundant, or insanely rare. the fact that we exist doesnt mean there more like us, or none like us. it means we exist. that all it means.

    you are assuming so much more than you could know.

    again, my view isnt that we are unique. my view is that any assertion about the possibility of other life is based on nothing and completely without meaning. you just cant say that life is likely or unlikely. you just have have no basis.
     
    martin, Feb 18, 2010
    #87
  8. red55

    red55 curmudgeon Staff Member

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    We have a sample size of billions and billions of planets upon which to apply valid statistical probabilities. We can not prove it until we get there, but we can most assuredly assume certain likelyhood based on probabilities.

    Don't mistake me for someone else. You toss out ideas and don't even attempt to back them up. You got nuthin'.

    Because the laws of probability say so.

    You must assume nothing. But it can make you one-dimensional, unimaginative, and incapable of abstract thought. I have observed that when I throw a baseball it always returns to earth. I can find evidence that this observation has been made by everybody on earth. If I throw one and turn my back, then I don't know if it actually entered earth orbit this time, but the statistical likelihood of this happening is so amazingly low that I can safely assume that the ball will not overcome gravity and will fall to earth.

    Stating the obvious. However, this does not preclude the statistical likelihood that life cannot be exclusive to Earth if it is a natural process. The same elements and environments that produced life on earth cannot help but be present on billions of planets. To deny this is to advocate creationism and geocentrism.

    Such is the basis of experimental science. We don't understand how gravity works. I have no way of knowing if a baseball thrown high might keep going up instead of down. But since this has never been observed, I can safely assume that gravity will bring it down. I don't have to witness every truth to make logical assumptions based on sound reasoning.

    I've already explained it and you just can't grok it. Not my problem.
     
    red55, Feb 18, 2010
    #88
  9. Texas_Tiger

    Texas_Tiger Tiger Stuck in Aggie Land

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    Texas_Tiger, Feb 18, 2010
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  10. martin

    martin Banned Forever

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    the question is whether there is life on other planets besides earth. we know of x number of planets besides earth. of those we have found life on zero of them. not sure where you are getting your numbers, but the stats appear to not really be in your favor. we are batting zero for whatever.

    you made that up. what you dont get is the idea of rarity. the same elements that make up martin are all over the place, in fact my DNA is only those 4 things or whatever. and yet here i am, the only martin on earth. i am rare (and wonderful). maybe life is as well. but maybe not. who knows.
     
    martin, Feb 18, 2010
    #90
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