i didnt mean just blacks, democrats pander to most minorities. gays come to mind. and it certainly is pandering to call republicans racist at every opportunity. hillary clinton does this all the time. maybe. but they dont call democrats racists who hate latinos. thats what democrats do. incidentally, yunno who loves latinos? me, thats who. i'm not buying it, amigo. the impression i get is that politics is historically a dirty business. one of my many obsessions is reading the works of my hero HL menken. he paints a bleak picture of mud-slinging and dirty politics in the early 1900's. seems to me like things stay the same on that front. i cant think of any reason why this time in history would be any better or worse.
Not one example of a political dirty trick for a guy that "makes Rove look like a choirboy"? No, I wouldn't go that far G-man. But Rove set a new standard for ruthless underhanded mudslinging most observers think. Here is just one example and it doesn't even involve Bush. The Atlantic--Karl Rove in a Corner "Karl Rove is at his most formidable when running close races, and his skills would be notable even if he used no extreme methods. But he does use them. His campaign history shows his willingness, when challenged, to employ savage tactics" "It is ultimately not just Rove's skill but his character that allows him to perform on an entirely different plane. Along with remarkable strategic skills, he has both an understanding of the media's unstated self-limitations and a willingness to fight in territory where conscience forbids most others." Bitter? I'm delighted that Rove's shenanigans are starting to come back and haunt the White House. Information is still coming out and it ain't over yet. And its looking like Cheney may be as guilty as Rove. The Bush Justice department has sealed the information regarding its investigation into Karl Rove which is still ongoing. But it will all come out in time. Post Chronicle -- Cheney told Libby of CIA Identity Libby Team to Subpoena Media--1/21/2006 "The court filings also make clear what several sources close to the case have been saying for weeks: that Fitzgerald has been occupied with the Libby case and has not had much time to focus on a decision regarding possible charges against the other administration official embroiled in the investigation: White House Deputy Chief of Staff Karl Rove. For the past two months, the special counsel's office has been busy providing classified and declassified documents to Libby's defense attorneys and trying to iron out pretrial disputes over whether the prosecutor is holding back information to which the defense is entitled. Fitzgerald declined to comment when asked yesterday in Chicago whether Rove remains, as he was in December, under investigation for possibly misleading investigators about his conversations about Plame with Time's Cooper. But a person close to Rove said Fitzgerald so far this year has not indicated any change in Rove's status. Rove expects to hear a final decision from Fitzgerald soon and has told friends he is optimistic that he will be cleared. Still, another person close to Rove said it was not a good sign that Fitzgerald has not already cleared President Bush's chief political adviser. Rove, this person said, has worked under the assumption that Fitzgerald is largely finished with his investigation and, because the prosecutor is sensitive to the political liability of a possible indictment hanging over the head of Rove, would publicly clear him quickly if he did not have enough evidence to charge him."
Its certainly worse than the WWII/Cold War era when the parties found much more common ground that they do today. I've said it before-- the parties have become so polarized that there is a large gap in the middle and very little common ground on which to work. Moderates and peacemakers have lost influence to the extremists in both parties .
OK, then let's see this long list of dirty tricks you can pin on Rove, Red...dirty tricks that you can actually substantiate as coming from Rove...not just "he said" - "she said" stuff. I'll be interested in seeing this list. Maybe you can educate me. Bear in mind that I never said the guy wasn't a sleazebag...only that he's not the first and that Carville was every bit as dirty, if not more so, than he is. Keep on wishing w/ one hand Red, and sh***ing in the other , and see which hand fills up first. Incidentally, I'll be interested in seeing what your take is when nothing comes of any of this. When Bill Clinton was cleared of all wrongdoing in the Whitewater scandal (in spite of the fact that a whole slew of people around him went to prison) there was "nothing to it". When Rove is cleared, will you say there was "nothing to it"?
you and i are broken records: issue X: martin: "the problem with issue X is the big government and religious tomfoolery" red55: "the problem with issue X is the extremes are overlooking the moderate stance"
Maybe the real problem w/ issue X is that nobody can even put a real name on it. :hihi: :hihi: :hihi:
Well, I've already listed a couple and I'm willing to do the research and list a bunch more BUT, . . . you must do the same regarding Carville. It was your allegation, after all. I asked you to prove it and you're asking me to prove something else which is not exactly a riposte. WHEN "Rove is cleared" and IF "nothing comes of this" we will see. If neither happens I'll be equally interested in what you think. Incidentally, Over the course of the "Whitewater" investigation, fifteen individuals -- including Clinton friends James McDougal and Susan McDougal, White House counsel Webster Hubbel and Arkansas Governor Jim Guy Tucker -- were convicted of federal charges unrelated to Whitewater. Clinton was also impeached (and aquitted) of charges unrelated to Whitewater. Clinton may have been a sleazeball husband, but he was not a crook. Despite years of investigations and milions spent, Starr had to go after Clintons associates and then change his investigation to Monica's dress to get anything at all.
Perhaps we should argue each other's position on the next issue X. It might be an interesting change of pace.
As far as you know. :yelwink2: And if Karl Rove is cleared, then he's not a crook either, right? :yelwink2: Actually, if Karl Rove is cleared (as I believe he will be) I'll hold the same opinion of him that I have of Bill Clinton...a crook who is very adept at covering his tracks.
Do you honestly believe that? Look, I'm not a big fan of the current administation (or anyone in Washington for that matter), but just cause he got away with it, doen't mean he didn't do it.
