Semantics are real fun. Watch a fun answer from catholic.com regarding Matt 23:9. http://www.catholic.com/library/Call_No_Man_Father.asp I charge that the Catholic Church are the modern day Pharisees. It regards itself as "the source of all authority and fatherhood and teaching, and instead sets itself up as the ultimate authorities, father figures, and teachers. " Why else discourage the laity from private scriptural examination?
oh, yeah i guess i promised not to screw with your threads. but i didnt know it applied to other people's threads too! i wasnt volunteering myself out of every religious thread. i think i i actually meant that if YOU wanted to start a thread to talk religion without me bothering you i would do it, but you didnt start this one.
Charge all you want. You are just wrong. Read Matt 23 again. Jesus doesn't question the authority of the Pharissees to make rules and bid the people to them. He just calls them hypocrites for not living the laws they create. I'd be interested to get an unbiased view on our difference in interpretation. Yours being that Christ condemns religion, mine being he condemns relgious hypocricy. It doesn't. What it does do is discourage private interpretation which is good. If you have private interpretation then everytime someone disagrees about a passage you end up with two seperate churches. That is why there are over 30,000 protestant churches.
Doesn't sound like much of a god if he doesn't care if you believe in him or not. If you don't believe in him, how did you come to know him? My mean ole God doesn't send "anyone" to hell. You are responsible for your own choices that send you to hell. He would rather all people go to be with Him in Heaven. Yet He still allows you to make your own choice. He has the power to "make" you accept Him, but what kind of love would that be? He must be kind of weak if you can hear his voice but still don't believe in him. When you hear my God's voice, I promise you will believe in Him. I'm not questioning your faith. You tell me you have none. Make up your mind. Sorry. I can't respect your stupid stupid baseless faith. But I will respect your right to be like that. You are a grown man and grown men have to make big boy choices sometimes. Then they are held accountable for them. That goes for me too. It's quite obvious that you don't respect mine, but that's ok by me. My only obligation to you is to tell you about Jesus. If you don't want to hear, or accept, or ridicule, I've done all Jesus has asked of me. He says He will handle it from there.:thumb:
If we go to trying to change each other's mind, I doubt we could. You would read your Bible and research Catholic doctrine. I would read my Bible and research texts such as the premier reference series-- ZONDERVAN NIV MATTHEW HENRY COMMENTARY which goes verse by verse and pretty well explains our doctrine. HEAVY reading though. And IMO, the doctrine is not nearly as important as the One you worship. I have no problems with you choice of worship. Sometimes people agree to discuss/debate their faiths. They say they will agree to disagree. Too often it turns from DEBATE TO I HATE. Kind of like politics I guess.
I agree, Paul told us to avoid debate because it breads quarrel. I just don't like people beleibing things on false pretenses. And it seems to me the materials you studied on Catholicism painted an incomplete picture and left out key details and distinctions. I don't want to change your mind, and I doubt I could, but I would like you to make a choice based on accurate portrayal of Catholic beleifs. It seems your source was a Protestant one. When I want to know what the other side thinks I usually consult the other side then make a distinction. I don't see what my side says the other side thinks.
What I was trying to show is that catholic.com backs MY viewpoint! The Catholic Church is doing exactly what the Pharisees did: setting themselves up as the ultimate arbiters of doctrine, status and prestige. Plenty of the Pharisees were blameless in their lives! They just thought they could achieve salvation by their own works and pure adherence to the law! Religion inevitably takes the focus off of God and Christ and puts it on to man. It becomes all about what you do and not about what God did! But it DID, which is my argument. For there to be a valid, God inspired institution, it can never err especially in tradition which is the basis of its entire supposed authority today. There should be thousands upon thousands of churches. The church is the body of believers, not a centrally managed institution with satellite parishes everywhere. Let the Bible say what it says.
No, Christ set the Church up as the ultimate authority on doctrine and law. The Church receives this authority from God. Your interpretation of that article is all wrong. You miss the point entirely. Religion inevitably takes the focus off of God and Christ and puts it on to man. It becomes all about what you do and not about what God did!!.[/QUOTE] This is your belief, but not reality. The Catholic Church does not teach that works save. It teaches us that Christ saves. The tools of religion help us to build and strengthen that faith. Demonstrate where the Church has erred in a matter of faith. No there should be only one church. The truth is absolute and not reletive. Thousands of churches teach thousands of doctines. They cannot all be right. We need a central authority to be the source of teaching, which is why Christ left us a church that is guided by the Holy Spirit and can never err in teaching.
