Penn & Teller on the Bible

a is a.

reason is not subjective. there is reality, and there is fantasy. there is not my version and yours. there is evidence or their isnt. remember formal logic class? either (a) or (not a) is true. logical tautology.

we are not asking a subjective question like "which is your favorite bbq sauce" where the answer varies. there are not "versions" of reality. you either make up lies and believe them, or you do not.

if you beleive in the tooth fairy, and i do not, one of us is factually right and the other is wrong. nothing subjective about it. there is an absolute right and wrong here. not a "just different".

you believe there is a god, a deity. i say your is purely based on fantasy. one of us is right.

you need to go through your ayn rand phase like every other kid your age. she is crazy, but she will at least teach you the nature of objective reality.

i am beginning to think you are not capable of understanding what i am telling you. there is a difference between claiming something and being mathematically certain of it. i do not believe you are secretly bill cosby. but i cannot say for a fact that you are not bill cosby. but for the sake of being concise, i can say you are not bill cosby, even though there is no proof.

it doesnt make sense to positively make some claim, like deism or believing you are bill cosby, based on nothing.

if red is a lunatic, and actually believes you are bill cosby, but i tell him you are not, would you say: "well, You have no proof, only your rationality - the same as everyone else."

of course, not, because the claim is absolutely ludicrous!

what we have here in this thread is effectively the following conversation:

"martin, can you say for a fact that cparso is not bill cosby?"
"no"
"hahha, lolz you arent even atheist with regard to teh cparso/cosby question! pwned! ROFL"

can you see how stupid this is? can you what an insignificant admission it is to admit that god is possible?

there is one rational position with regard to god and it is the same as the one rational position about claims as to whether or not you are secretly bill cosby. believing either is stupid.

 

Funny...absolute right and wrong huh? How do you know what is right or what is wrong especially in an absolute sense? You have to have some basis for telling you what is right and what is wrong especially if it is an absolute. As a non-believer I would love to know where you can make the case for anything "moral"...just curious :shock:

 

I have many problems with "organized religions." The first being that churches are tax exempt. This is good for the good churches, but leaves the door open for guys like Jimmy Swaggart to create a tax shelter to maximize his profits, so that he can buy more hookers. Same thing with these TV Evangelists.

The second is that the only organized religion that hasn't started some sort of war are the Buddhists. This is 100% true for you doubters out there.

The third is the Bible. My family converted to a Christian Bible Study church about 10 years ago. I was forced to attend for about 5 years and I never bought into these sermons which basically dissected a book which has been translated and rewritten more times than can be accounted for. Word for word analysis loses it's weight we you take into the account that the book was written by men, not god. Also where are dinosaurs accounted for. May seem trivial but think about it. It's hard to deny mention of gigantic creatures that one day walked the earth and are now gone. Also Genesis never accounts for Adam and Eve having a daughter so that would mean that their sons had to reproduce with mom; which is incest and that would mean that we are all related and doesn't account for all the races of the world today.

The last is evolution. I know this is a very touchy subject for some people and I don't mean to offend anyone. But if microorganisms can alter their genomic sequence due to mutagenesis in just one generation (which is basically small scale evolution) then why can't things change if given a long period of time. We see it all the time; antibiotics don't work anymore, anyone remember the whole mosquito and DDT thing in malaria stricken countries. Those chemicals no longer work. Why is that?

 

Agreed.

Some sort? Buddhists and Hindus still fight for Sri Lanka. Various forms of Buddhism in various times have been instruments of war and violence. It has integrated itself with governments and found itself manipulating the populace just as many other religions have done.

Many people believe Job, David, and Isaiah spoke of dinosaurs. The words "tannyin," "behemoth," and "leviathon" are Hebrew and translate differently into English. Tannyin is more of a general term and always translates into a different word in English. In Hebrew, however, it translates to "dragon," "serpent," "sea monster," "dinosaur," "great creature," and "reptile."

You either didn't pay much attention in Bible study, or you didn't look at it for yourself. Genesis 5 references descendents of Adam and says Adam "had other sons and daughters." So, I don't know who told you to that.

I believe in evolution, but in adaptive evolution in animals, not neccessarily in humans. God created us and the Earth to withstand itself, so to speak. For example, people talk about global warming, which is an issue, but it won't be the End-All as many people believe.

As far as antibiotics not working and DDT not working, from my own research and experience, they both still seem to work.

 

I agree. Any church or pastor using tax exempt status for personal gain is sick and should be punished.

That's not true. The samurai feudal lords who ruled and fought over Japan for hundreds of years were Buddhists.

Both the Old and New Testaments are largely free of translational errors. Though existing manuscripts only date back to the 4th century we can still know the Bible is accurate to the original writings. The Christians of the second century quoted the New Testament works so much that all but 27 verses could be recreated from their writings. So even if we had no existing manuscripts the New Testament could be recreated. None of the translational errors alter the meaning of anything materially unless you are a Biblical Fundamentalist.

This argument only presents a problem for sola scriptura Christians. The vast majority of Christians recognize the Bible for what it is. And that is a work of literature that contains many different kinds of stories. Some are histories and some are fables. All are inspired by God to teach a lesson.

While it may be difficult for the fundamentalist Christian to reconcile things like evolution with his faith tradition it does not for the orthodox Christian who does not the view the Bible as entirely literal.

 

First, in 1611 the King of England ordered an English translation of the bible. Some of the greatest scholars and writers of that time took part in this.However,when they were finished ,they wrote a 30 page letter to the King expressing how tough it was to translate. How they did their best ,but may have made misstakes,So the reader of the bible needs to be able to check them out.This can be done with a Strongs Concordance and King James 1611 Bible.They did make misstakes-example-psalms 22 the word unicorn...a creature that has never existed ...the correct translation should be wild ox. Second, Dinosaurs.They existed and are mentioned in job chapter 40 verse 15 as the behemoth.Why didnt they call them dinosaurs?...well, that word wasnt invented until 1869.However a description of the behemoth is given and it is said to have lived in the earth of old.Earth of old? When was that?Prior to Genesis chapter one verse 2 where the earth is made void and without form...meaning...it was totally destroyed or laid waste. And last your comment about no mention of Daughters.This is rarely taught,controversial,but I believe it to be true and can back it up.On the sixth day God created mankind [Adam without the article],and made them hunters and fishermen.This means ALL the races.It was good and he rested on the seventh day.On the eighth day he creates eth ha adam {Adam with the article)This man is a farmer, and through his seed line Christ will come to save all Gods children.His wife Eve ,was she created with a rib from Adam...probably not...the correct translation is the curve....which could mean the helix curve of DNA.So when Cain is born and is banished to the land of Nod,he didnt have to take a sister with him to marry.There were many people of many races on this earth by that time.Would Swaggart know this?I doubt Swaggart knows the difference between "come here" and "sic em".And let me end by pointing out just one of Swaggarts misguded teachings...The rapture...that at any moment Christ will return and wisk away all his believers while the rest of us poor souls will suffer through the tribulation.This piece of BS started in 1830 in Glasgow Scotland when a mentally ill woman named Margaret Macdonald had this dream. 2 preachers {John Darby and Edward Irving} latched onto this crap and ...poof ...the rapture theory.

 

And I'm prepared to address them again. But the Bible is largely free of translational errors that alter the messege in a material way.