You aren't paying attention. No, what you said was there were science and facts and everything else is "wishful thinking". I've noted that there are a number of arguments that are not based on facts which are nonetheless valid logical arguments and a great deal more than wishful thinking. Since you never admit an error and will go to extreme lengths to get in the last word, you will continue to belabor this point, but my position is clear. Cparso an martin may each be right and it is impossible for us to know. It is amusing to me that you cannot accept that others do not have your narrow worldview. You insist that a diety cannot exist because there is no scientific proof. I maintain that if there is a creation, then there must be a creator. It may only be a phenomenon or the work of some logical entity . . . but it may involve a diety. Absence of evidence is NOT evidence of absence. I have argued along with you against those who proclaim that there is proof of God. There is not. However this does not preclude the existence of God. The evidence could be beyond our understanding. For much of human history, there was no evidence that the earth was spherical. Yet, in time, it turned out to be true. The evidence was simply beyond our capacity to understand.
that is incredibly stupid. i am aware that scientists use their minds in other ways than pure simple observation. that is called science, different ways of thinking about reality. not the same as as intuiting something out of the ether. i absolutely do not, and i have literally been saying the opposite of that for years, over and over and over. bad logic, for one, it fails to consider the possibility that creation has always existed. also if there is a creator, must he have been created? who created him? i only had to tell cparso once that i did not claim i had evidence of absence or faith that god didnt exist. he understood the first time. after all the thousands of word i have types on this topic, i would have thought you would have at least the understanding that i know this. in a situation without sufficient evidence, these ancient people probably used their intuition to figure that the world was flat. they should have been like me and accepted that there was no evidence to support the current theories instead of making stuff up to fill in the blanks of their knowledge.
quick question - according to the be all end all Bible, when was Adam created, approximate year? The recent discovery of a skull in Romania which provides evidence of possible mating of neandorthal and current day man is dated back to appx 35,000 years ago. Dinosaurs are dated further back then that, yet no mention of them in the book of Genises......why so many inaccuracies in a book that is supposed to be all encompassing about Earth and mankind's creation and evolution?
Let me put it this way martin. You believe that there is no god. You do not deny its possibility, but none the less, you do not believe there is a god, correct? What brought you to that conclusion? It was not facts or science because no such things can prove that stance.
correct, in the same sense that i do not believe in the tooth fairy. however, it is technically possible that the tooth fairy exists. but if you started preaching tooth fairy doctrine, i wouldnt bother to listen. i dont think you would call that closed-minded on my part, i would be quite confident you are making it up. if you understand why i wouldnt listen, you should understand why it is rational to ignore all religions, including your deism. submitted without evidence. whether or not a tooth fairy exists, technically that is an undetermined question, just like your passive deity you believe in. belief in either is based on wishful thinking. an adult should be able to accept that the unknown is unknown without making up things to believe. correct. my stance isnt proven. it is just the only rational stance with the (lack of) evidence we currently have. for any topic, given a lack of evidence, it doesnt make sense to start believing things at random. if you said the core of saturn was made of bananas, i wouldnt believe that. but one day you might be able to prove it. for now i have no evidence to support that theory, so i do not believe it. i am not going to guess that it might be true and believe that. again, i am making no claims, i am only doubting yours. when you make claims of your deism, you are the one making a positive statement about something. you are the one who presumes to have knowledge i do not have. the problem is that you really don't. paraphrasing mencken: The fact that I have no answers is no reason for my accepting yours. It simply supports the strong probability that yours are fake. two possibilities: god exists, or he doesnt, right. keep the tooth fairy analogy in mind to help yourself remember that just because there are two possibilities doesnt mean they are somehow equally likely.
I Hate these discussions....Who would trust Penn and Tellers for any kind of enlightenment. I come here to read about L.S.U. Sports and chat with people but if you look for a belief system or to argue with allot of the people who post on here about Christians you will only be wasting your time. Every time anyone brings this argument up i can close my eyes and see the big grin rise across the face of the scholar ed Agnostics and Atheists who love (live) to tear down the Christian Beliefs. All i can say is i know what/Who i have my faith in. whack at me if you must i am a Christian who was not raised that way i will be glad to DISCUSS not argue with a mean spirit religion with anyone. And i have done a good bit of studying and traveling and try to speak fair about what i know or don't know...oooh and i believe we can be Friends and not agree on things...Except L.S.U. Being the greatest :hihi:
The story you are referencing is the creation story from the book of Genesis. And it is just that… a story. It is a fable used to teach a primitive people a universal truth. That being that God created man and the world, and man brought sin into the world. Adam is not a literal figure in history. The story of creation is not meant to detail the exact evolution of man nor of the earth. Only a small, but vocal, minority of Christians believe the Bible is made up entirely of historical events or that it is an all encompassing book. Most Christians believe the Bible is an anthology of histories, stories, dramas, and poetry. It is all inspired by God and inerrant, but it is certainly not the end all be all book of Judeo-Christian theology.
Like I said, martin, you wil belabor the point past all reason and always end up calling someone "incredibly stupid" for pointing out all the holes in you argument. :lol: For instance, recently you insisted that you were an atheist and even tried to tell me that I am one. Now you insist that you've known all along that God could possibly exist. That makes you an agnostic! Now, after I pointed out that there are a lot of logical arguments not based on facts, which you vehemently advocated, you say that clearly these are part and parcel of science. Well, Duhhhh! That was my point. You just don't understand the intuitive process. Or you refuse to admit it.
odds you are serious: 18% odds you are pretending not to understand to wind me up: 82% i can't tell, i am not good at figuring out when people are actually ignorant or if they are pulling my leg.
It is possible to admit that it is unknown & still believe something. You may call it wishful thinking, but that's just because from your perspective, it is not necessarily the case. Says who? This is exactly what I'm talking about. People can use their own rationality to come to different conclusions. It doesn't mean that someone is right or wrong, just different. But as I said, you do make a claim. You claim there is no god, even if you admit it as a possability. You have no proof, only your rationality - the same as everyone else.
