Pavlov, Lemmings, BS, & Strawberries

Discussion in 'Free Speech Alley' started by XXL TideFan, May 24, 2009.

  1. martin

    martin Banned Forever

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    well the point of politics is to make the best decisions, bot submit to whatever happens because you are too weak to have a position or oppose the majority.


    so i was correct, you refuse to answer. dude wins a nobel prize on the topic we are discussing, drives the national debate, but you cant say whether you agree with him or not. i happen to disagree with almost all of his proposals. do you? no answer?

    well, obviously, you keep your views secret for fear of having to defend them.

    of course. you can put words in your mouth if you like. but you do not answer. do you agree with findings and suggestions proposed by al gore, and the science behind his conclusions? no answer?

    if you say so, man, i am just trying to get you to take a position. but like i said, you perceive both sides to be extreme and therefore cannot agree with either because you have crafted a wise and moderate persona for yourself.
     
  2. red55

    red55 curmudgeon Staff Member

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    OK, now that you've finally accepted the global warming problem and moved on to something new, YOU tell me what you don't like about Gore's proposals. Pick an AL Gore proposal and ask me about it. And be specific.

    I actually haven't seen his movie yet and I haven't read his articles because I don't consider him to be an expert on global warming any more than I consider George Foreman to be an expert on kitchen appliances.

    I seriously doubt if I will agree with everything Al Gore proposes, but I might agree with some. Pick an Al Gore proposal, if you actually know one, and we can discuss it. I suspect you don't know much about Al Gore's plans other than that he's a democrat, so you must be against it.
     
  3. SabanFan

    SabanFan The voice of reason

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    Pretty demanding for someone who claims to have all the answers.
     
  4. tirk

    tirk im the lyrical jessie james

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    just as long as there are no real questions.

    i prefer to seemingly have all the answers, not really make a position, then claim im somewhere in the middle --you know, where its good and safe.
     
  5. martin

    martin Banned Forever

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    no i havent. and unlike you, i have been very clear about it. i am impossibly wise and i like to really consider everything and not accept the words of extremists. you cant possibly imagine how moderate i am. i refuse anything that anyone thinks is extreme.

    just as a starting point, do you agree with the assertion that we are dealing with an urgent and unprecedented threat to human civilization? this is his premise. he mostly quotes the IPCC, and i believe you have said you trust them.

    other points:

    do you agree with carbon cap and trade programs?

    federal investment in ethanol and other alternative energies?

    trade restrictions or other punishments for poor countries with pollution-heavy industries.

    should we sign something like the kyoto protocol, like virtually every other developed country?


    i do, i keep up. do you keep up with newsmakers and politicians?

    you should keep yourself educated on these things if you want to discuss them. yunno al gore was vice president and he won a nobel prize for his incredibly important work on the very topic we are discussing.

    true.

    me, i am a partisan, blindly follow the right wing christians.
     
  6. red55

    red55 curmudgeon Staff Member

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    Demanding? He's the one insisting that I defend Al Gore when I don't even know or care what Al Gore proposes. If he can distill that down to an issue then I can talk about it.

    Then ask a real question. That's what I just asked martin to do.

    Tell me, do you or SabanFan have any position at all other than if Al Gore believes then you must disbeleieve?
     
  7. tirk

    tirk im the lyrical jessie james

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    huh? its not al gore. its any of you hogwash saloon people on their global warming high-horse telling everyone we must do something.

    include any conservative you want and i feel the same. i doubt i mentioned al bore because hes such a joke that i try to forget so many idiots actually fall for his agenda.
     
  8. martin

    martin Banned Forever

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    well, to be fair i was simply asking if you agree with his findings. i was kinda surprised that you dont know where he stands.

    al gore and many like him propose worldwide limits to carbon emissions. do you agree with this policy?

    i do not, i think this would:

    a. be ignored in the third world, resulting in no real reduction in emissions.
    b. when not ignored, be crippling to developing countries.
    c. hurt the economy of everywhere, which is most damaging to those at the bottom of the scale, causing more misery that it prevented.
    d. divert attention from atual problems.

    see, i have a position. it isnt that hard.
     
  9. red55

    red55 curmudgeon Staff Member

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    I have been crystal clear on the issue of global warming. I simply don't care about the proposals of Al Gore, but I will indulge you if you can cite one.

    You are impossibly obtuse and polemic.

    No paraphrasing with your spin. Cite a proper Al Gore proposal in Al Gore's words and I'll tell you if I agree.

    It has potential but seems flawed with profits for middlemen.

    Ethanol, no, it's a waste of resources and expensive energy. Wind Power, yes, in a big way, it's proven and we are far behind other countries in exploiting our vast wind resources. Advanced technologies like gravity/magnetic/zero-point research, absolutely. But not so much to address global warming, but to replace fossil fuels in 50-100 years when we are going to need them.

    i need details here. I wish you would cite real proposals.

    No. Kyoto put most of the costs of addressing the issue upon America, simply because we are the biggest polluter. But the problem WILL take international agreement to address. We should insist on an international treaty that makes each country address its own problems in relative proportion to each other. If we must take down emissions by X%, then the third world must do the same and they must do it with their own income.

    Already asked and answered. I've been defending the science of global warming here, not the politics of it because my concern is the science, not the politics. I can see that the politics is all that you care about, but I just don't feel as strongly as you do about it. So sue me.

    If you want to talk about Al Gore, then you have to cite his quotes, because I am just not that familiar with them. He didn't do the research, he's just a pitchman like Billy Mays or Shamwow Vince. He may or may not have it right. His political spin may not agree with mine. His solutions may not be pragmatic in my eyes.

    No, you are just blind to opinions that fall in the shades of gray. You live in a black and white world. I do not.
     
  10. red55

    red55 curmudgeon Staff Member

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    Then ignore us.

    But if you're going to come into a discussion thread, better bring an argument to the table instead of crying about people who do. I think you got nuthin'.
     

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