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over the counter abortion?

Discussion in 'Free Speech Alley' started by mesquite tiger, Dec 16, 2003.

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CottonBowl'66 Founding Member

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Originally posted by JD
There's no good answer to this.
Obviously, they aren't doing it to encourage sex.
On the other hand, it does seem better than an invasive abortion -much earlier in the process, etc. However, it could discurage contraception.
If it is prescribed, you are going to the doc BEFORE intercourse, asking for abortion help - I mean, if you are going to do that, why not ask for contraception help?
What is the delay between ejaculation and fertilization if there is such a delay - if there is, that's the kind of pill we need - post ejaculation, contraception.

The government is not the best entity to answer these questions.
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By making the Morning After Pill available over the counter, you are taking it out of the hands of the government. The only problem with it is that it costs $30, which may be out of reach for some very poor kids who make a mistake.

Hopefully this price will fall considerably as it becomes more popular. Some estimates say it will eliminate half the unwanted pregnancies in America a year, about 1.5 million.

It will be each woman's choice, which is where it belongs. We don't need a bunch of uptight men on this message board or the government making the decision for her.

CottonBowl'66, Dec 20, 2003

#11
SabanFan The voice of reason

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Originally posted by CottonBowl'66
When you graduate from high school SabanFan, you can try that.
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I wish I was still in high school. Then I could serve in Viet Nam all over again.

SabanFan, Dec 20, 2003

#12
LSUBud Founding Member

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Originally posted by mesquite tiger
We are basically saying it is ok to be 14 or 15, go have sex, then take these and worry about nothing.

you don't see a problem with this?
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Do you really think that NOT having these pills available has done ANYTHING to "curb" the rate of teenagers having sex????

Yeah, I can see 14-16 year old girl saying, "Well, now that we have this pill available, I'll have sex with you"

YEAH RIGHT!!!

PLUS, just because they're over the counter DOESN'T NECESSARILY mean that there can't be an 18 year old limit on their sale.

The only thing this pill will do is prevent THOUSANDS of unwanted pregnancies.

LSUBud, Dec 21, 2003

#13
dallastigers Founding Member

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Originally posted by LSUBud
...The only thing this pill will do is prevent THOUSANDS of unwanted pregnancies.
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It will abort most of these "unwanted pregnancies". In most cases the egg does get fertilized but is not allowed to implant. You may not agree with that terminology, but there are many that do.

You make a pretty bold statement in regards to the only thing this pill will do and use CAPs to drive home your point.
Are you sure that there will be no health issues from extended or multiple use of this pill (which would happen more being over the counter)?
Are you sure condom use will not even slightly decrease with this drug being over the counter, which may lead to the possibility of even higher rates of STDs?
What are the effects of this pill on a fertilized egg if taken after 72 hours?

I also find one of the reasons listed in article as suspect:

Studies show the treatment works best when taken within 24 hours of unprotected sex. Proponents argue that if the drug were available over the counter, women would have quicker access to it, leading to reductions in unintended pregnancies and abortions.

"Over 3 million unintended pregnancies occur each year," said Dr. Carole Ben-Maimon, president of Barr Research, which is buying rights to the pill.

"With typical use, women using condoms, 15 percent of them, will become pregnant each year, and 8 percent of women using oral contraceptives will become pregnant.

"Half of the unintended pregnancies result in abortion. And again, it's estimated that up to 50 percent of these unintended pregnancies could be prevented with the use of emergency contraception."
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It scares people into the need for this drug due to the possibility of failure by condoms and oral contraceptives, but are these people really going to know these items failed within 72 hours much less 24 hours. No, these for the most part would be in the 50% that this pill would not "help", so why would Barr throw them into their reasoning for this pill other than marketing their product to people who already use a contraceptive.

Below are some other views. I am sure Pro-Abortion supporters will not agree with the sources, but they make some good medical points in regards to this pill being over the counter in addition to their other objections.

What is it?

Emergency contraception (also known as the morning-after pill) is a high dosage of the birth control pill. It is recommended to be used after sexual intercourse, over a period of 72 hours, to achieve the goal of preventing or ending pregnancy. There are three different ways birth control pills are currently being promoted for this use: progesterone alone, estrogen alone, or both of these artificial steroids together.

These are the same steroids found in the typical birth control pill.

Where did this idea come from?

The idea of emergency contraception—or a morning-after pill—is based on a theory. Under this theory, if a woman has sexual intercourse and fears she may be pregnant, she can take large doses of birth control pills. If in fact the woman is pregnant when she takes these birth control pills, the high dosage could act to kill her preborn child-a living human being. The only "emergency" in this case is the woman's fear of being pregnant.

There is no such thing as a specific morning-after pill, but rather double doses (or more) of existing birth control pills. Though no testing has been done to confirm the safety of these large doses of birth control pills for women, the Food and Drug Administration has approved this use.

How do emergency contraception/morning-after pills work?

The emergency contraceptive/morning-after pill has three possible ways in which it can work:

Ovulation is inhibited, meaning the egg will not be released;
The normal menstrual cycle is altered, delaying ovulation; or
It can irritate the lining of the uterus so that if the first and second actions fail, and the woman does become pregnant, the tiny baby boy or girl will die before he or she can actually attach to the lining of the uterus.

In other words, if the third action occurs, her body rejects the tiny baby and he or she will die. This is called a chemical abortion.

Abortion is an act of direct killing that takes the life of a tiny human being-a life that begins at fertilization.

Is it safe?

Here are some of the side effects:

nausea
vomiting
infertility
breast tenderness
ectopic pregnancy-can be life threatening
blood clot formation

Emergency contraception also offers no protection against sexually transmitted diseases including AIDS.

There are no long term studies to show whether women will be permanently damaged, or risk such diseases as cancer, from these chemicals being given in such high doses.

Sources:

"A Consumer's Guide to the Pill and Other Drugs," by pharmacist/researcher John Wilks.

"Infant Homicides Through Contraceptives," by pharmacist Bogomir Kuhar; 2nd edition, 1995.

Medical consultant: Stephen Spaulding, M.D. Dr. Spaulding is a board-certified family practitioner whose writings have appeared in a variety of medical journals.
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http://www.morningafterpill.org/mapinfo1.htm
Catholic link

How Effective are ECPs at Preventing or Interrupting Pregnancy?
The oft-cited 74% effectiveness rate for ECPs comes from a 1996 meta-analysis of ten clinical trials by Trussel et al. This percentage is the average of a range of effectiveness from 55.3% to 94.2%. A recent project in Washington State tracked demand, but did not report effectiveness. There, pharmacists collaborated in an Emergency Contraceptive Project sponsored by Program for Appropriate Technology in Health (PATH) and others. Under the project, trained pharmacists could write and fill prescriptions for ECPs. A reported 52% of women and girls seeking ECPs did so due to "contraceptive failure."

Another alarming aspect of the program is the demand generated by publicity. During their study, calls to the ECP Hotline increased ten-fold to 1,160 per month. More than 2,700 prescriptions were filled in the first four months alone. (HUMAN LIFE News, Sept.1998, p. 11, newsletter of Human Life of Washington.)

In an effort to determine whether women would use ECPs too often if they were allowed to keep them in their medicine cabinet, Anna Glasier, M.D. and David Baird, D.Sc. studied two groups of women in Edinburgh, Scotland. A total of 1,083 women were recruited who had previously used ECPs or had a surgical abortion. These women are "not exactly" a representative group, according to Margaret Pfeifer, M.D., an ob/gyn at the Mayo Clinic in Rochester, Minnesota. Because of their history of abortion or ECP use, they were more likely than other women to use ECPs. They also had a fairly high educational level and were given detailed written and oral instructions concerning use. Data was available for analysis on 1,071 women (549 with ECPs at home and 522 in a control group who would first need to obtain a doctor's prescription for ECPs). Among the treatment group, 47% used ECPs at least once in the two-year period of study, compared to 27% use among the controls. Ten percent of each group used ECPs more than once. One woman was dropped from the study after she used ECPs more than four times in four months. There were 28 pregnancies (5%) in the treatment group and 33 pregnancies (6%) in the control group. Eight women in the treatment group and four in the control group appear to have become pregnant during a cycle in which emergency contraception was used. The children who survived the ECPs were subsequently aborted. (Glasier and Baird, "The Effects of Self-Administering Emergency Contraception," N. Engl. J. Med., 339:1-4 (1998).)

What are the Side Effects of ECP Use?
About 50% of women experience nausea and 20% vomit. A far more serious side effect is the increased risk of ectopic pregnancy. The Princeton University website promoting ECPs also warns: "It is possible ... that a woman using ECPs could have one of the dangerous or even fatal complications that have been reported in very rare cases with normal, prolonged use of birth control pills. These include: thrombophlebitis (blood clots in the legs), lung clots, heart attack, stroke, liver damage, liver tumor, gallbladder disease, and high blood pressure" (www.princeton.edu/ec/ecpnyou.html).
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Wendy Wright, senior policy director for Concerned Women for America, said it makes no sense to offer a higher dose of Plan B over the counter when a lower, prescribed amount can't be obtained without a medical exam.

"All it will do is ensure women will end up suffering very serious complications," Wright said, adding that blood clots and heart attacks are among the most common.
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http://www.family.org/cforum/fnif/news/a0029455.cfm

dallastigers, Dec 21, 2003

#14
CottonBowl'66 Founding Member

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The main organization of American gynecologists favors the sale of the morning after pill over the counter. I listened to the head of that group speak in favor of it on NPR. They see it as safe.

Wendy Wright opposes this because she sees it as abortion. The health "concern" by her is a load of crap to mask that.

If you oppose it because you oppose abortion, at least you should have the guts to say so. She knows she must lie to have a chance of stopping it.

Over the long run, she may just do that.

You probably have 4 members of the Supreme Court right now who would see the use of this pill as possible murder. Four more years of Bush will probably increase that number to 5 or 6.

CottonBowl'66, Dec 21, 2003

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dallastigers Founding Member

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Originally posted by CottonBowl'66
The main organization of American gynecologists favors the sale of the morning after pill over the counter. I listened to the head of that group speak in favor of it on NPR. They see it as safe.

Wendy Wright opposes this because she sees it as abortion. The health "concern" by her is a load of crap to mask that.

If you oppose it because you oppose abortion, at least you should have the guts to say so. She knows she must lie to have a chance of stopping it.

Over the long run, she may just do that.

You probably have 4 members of the Supreme Court right now who would see the use of this pill as possible murder. Four more years of Bush will probably increase that number to 5 or 6.
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You have answered just as expected without reading or at least comprehending the entire email and links. With more people like you against us we will definitely succeed.

You put down one person's viewpoint, because of her politics on abortion, but you make your point based on a person who NPR puts one of their shows. Do you think anything that comes from NPR is unbiased?

dallastigers, Dec 21, 2003

#16
martin Banned Forever

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its not my job to tell people not to have sex when they are not ready. its not my job (as a taxpayer and voter) to prevent people from buying drugs. both of those are parents responsibilities.

the end.

martin, Dec 21, 2003

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SabanFan The voice of reason

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Originally posted by martin
its not my job to tell people not to have sex when they are not ready. its not my job (as a taxpayer and voter) to prevent people from buying drugs. both of those are parents responsibilities.

the end.
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I said the same thing and Cotton Bowel told me to come back after I get out of High School.

SabanFan, Dec 21, 2003

#18
dallastigers Founding Member

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Originally posted by martin
its not my job to tell people not to have sex when they are not ready. its not my job (as a taxpayer and voter) to prevent people from buying drugs. both of those are parents responsibilities.

the end.
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The end if this was only about sex, but there is another life involved in a pregnancy besides the mother's.

dallastigers, Dec 21, 2003

#19
martin Banned Forever

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we are gonna have to agree to disagree. i dont believe in the sanctity of human life. abortions dont bother me. i oppose murder for rational, not religious reasons. i oppose murder because if we allowed it, society would descend into chaos. this isnt true with abortion. mudering unborn babies doesnt cause any real problems.

nevertheless i understand the opposing viewpoint, and respect it.

martin, Dec 21, 2003

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