(Official) Hoops Post-Season Tourney Watch Thread

Dude. I'll keep this short. I have the Dale Brown video, I also grew up with Dale Brown and defended him up to til the end. Just like perhaps, I defended Brady at times and now Trent. I think the point is that, even as great as Brown was, there WERE people that thought the other side of Brown was a quack... the missionary trips, the Mother Theresa stuff, the freak defense. Did he over achieve with his 80s teams? Yes. Did he underachieve with his 90's teams? Yes. So, no coach is perfect, and in many ways, when I hear the stuff about Trent, I also come to defend him. He may not be college basketball's coaching royalty, but when LSU fans persecute him, blind to the situation he inherited and what he's had to rebuild, I defend the guy.

The one point you seem to want to make is recruiting. You think LSU is the equivalent to Kentucky in basketball (especially right now)? That's sort of like saying that TCU is equivalent to LSU in football. TCU is a decent program, but are they a top 5 team? Not quite. Do they occasionally sign an Andy Dalton? Yes, but they don't have 5-7 NFL draft picks in each year's draft. And, as I've said many times, yes LSU was known for Shaq, CJ... at the last hurrah time under Dale Brown, over 15 years ago. But, how many draft picks has Kentucky had in that time? Since then there's been Brady and Trent, and a lot of SEC schools have caught up to Daddy Dale and Kentucky. That's Arkansas in the 90s and Florida in the 2000s. Perhaps it's you who needs to look at some SEC basketball since the Brown days. So, yes, I don't think I'm going out on a limb to say that LSU recruits a different kind of player than Kentucky... right now. In order for LSU to recruit like it did in the 80s, they have to win like they did in the 80s. Winning brings players. So, let's see if Trent can win after taking a 11-20 team to the post season the next year.

Some flashes in the pan on the LSU side have come since then, and now, when a coach has a solid freshman and sophomore class with some potential, and is trying to build a program by recruiting some more players. He gets Dale Brown thrown in his face, or told what a lousy job he's doing.

Just trying to keep it real, and trying to support the current team with logic.

 

Don't forget Bigfoot. Dale was crazy bout some Bigfoot.

 

You have to take into account what Coach Johnson was left with after his 1st season. Brady's influence was on the down stroke. The cupboard was bare, to borrow a cliche', after all those seniors left in 09. So you have a coach starting from scratch to form a competitive team in his second season. The 4 year plan, as many have alluded to (and for reason I don't know) now should bear fruit in the fifth. That is my expectation and after this season I don't see any reason to believe we are not on the right road. The NIT was a a mild disappointment, result-wise, but it's a move in the right direction. I look for consistent NCAA tourney appearances with a run every 3-4 years.

 

Seeing is believing. As in seeing Trent's players actually improve significantly year-to-yaar, which right now is a big assumption. As in seeing us actually make waves in the offseason by picking up 2/3 of Hammink, Coleman, and Pelle. Without that happening, with Missouri and A&M now on the schedule we see modest improvement at best, maybe 19-20 wins and another NIT trip. Then we get to have this same conversation this time next year.

 

I understand, again, why LSU fans can sometimes be irrational about hoops, but it's just a different game from football. Basketball is an irrational sports at times, where talent and coaching sometimes gives way to the unpredictable.

I had a coach once tell me that 90% of coaching is what is done prior to the game and helping teams develop in practice, and 10% is actually what goes on in the game, in game adjustments and the like. Don't know if that's always true, but some aspect of it is. At the end of the day, the players have to play, hit shots, play defense and do most of it... and you never know if shots are going to fall. Case in point, look at the tourney so far.

The "great" 'Bama, and Anthony Grant, fall in the first round to Creighton. Duke, and Coach K, lose to LeHigh? Missouri, who could have likely challenged for the SEC title this year, loses to Norfolk St after winning their conference? Wichita St, who like 'Bama made the NIT finals last year, and whose Greg Marshall some rantards were calling for as a replacement for Trent, after so much promise this season, goes down to VCU (again, Shaka Smart!). Are all of these guys lousy coaches now? Coach K's scrub and should be fired? No.

I think consistency is defined by recruiting well enough and developing players to reach a certain level of predictability and respectability. Good enough to be competitive in your conference, go to the NCAAs, and make a run. Marquette, who LSU beat, could go end up as an Elite 8 team... Just shows you how thin that line is.

 

I appreciate your optimism and positive thinking but have to admit I've been quite disappointed with the program over the last few years.

Losing to a #15 seed is bad but you can't do it if you never make the tourney to begin with. Next year is a big year for Trent. If we're in the same position this time next year...I think he'll be gone. I surely hope he succeeds!!!

 

Ok. I've been labelled this unrealistic "optimist" by some. Sure, I see the world through P&G glasses. But, am I unrealistically "optimistic" or is everyone in Tigertown, or on the chatterboards, unrealistically "pessimistic"? Afterall, what I said at the end of last season, after two admittedly poor seasons (maybe one of them was expected given what he was left with, year 3 should have shown more improvement had there not be key injuries), was that we should expect Trent to hit somewhere in the mark of 18+ games and NIT, or 20+ wins and NCAA. Right up to 2 weeks before the end of the season, he had his team within the taste of the NCAA and well, he finished with the NIT. He improved his win record by 7 games, and finished within striking distance of 4th place in the SEC, after finishing last. What I don't understand is, that most folks had written off the Tigers a week or two into the SEC play, and now, they seem "shell-shocked" by a 18-14 finish. Most folks didn't even give Trent a chance at a winning record it seemed.

Look, I agree with you here. I do expect Trent/LSU to be better next year, and to make the NCAA. Year 5, given who he has and the talent base of his team, is going to be key for him. But, it's the very predictable program building when you look at his stints at Stanford and Nevada. He knows what he's doing. I just find it funny how everyone else seems to choose not to see that. No question, I expect Trent to recruit well, and pick up some guys this Spring. Then, I expect him to continue to build up his players this summer, I expect him to continue to better his staff, and I expect, more consistent play, more maturity next year. And, more wins. What that number is... well, again, I think that making the NCAA should be the expectation. I think whether he's gone or not after that is a matter of who commits this spring and in 2012-2013, and what kind of product is put on the floor next year. Assuming he signs who we're thinking he may sign, I think him being here is a pretty safe bet. :geauxtige

 

Yeah, it's the expectations that are unrealistic. We improved this year, and I expect the same next year, which should equate to 20+ wins. I really like what he had to say in that year end summary, and better understand his philosophy on team building. He'll get it done. The talent level is gradually improving, he's trying to establish balance and diversity at the same time, and staggering the classes experience-wise. The only other ingredient should be fan patience, but that may not be realistic either.