Obama Wants To Raise Your Electric Bill

Discussion in 'Free Speech Alley' started by Speedo Bandit, Jul 2, 2009.

  1. martin

    martin Banned Forever

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    i dont believe in god and i oppose global warming legislation. also i do not deny that the globe is warming. although i think it is possible it isnt and in fact it is now cooling. in fact i think over the last 10 years or so, we have cooled. but i am aware that 10 years is nothing. of course a million years is also not much in terms of the earth.

    but anways, it makes sense. religious folks dont need environmentalism. they already have a religion. they already have their reason to feel guilty. they already have their original sin, their reason to seek salvation. the leftys dont have that, but they find it in the environmental movement.
     
  2. red55

    red55 curmudgeon Staff Member

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    Do people misuse and misunderstand science, sure. They also misuse and abuse art, social studies, and philosophy. But to call "popular science" a religion is a huge stretch. Who is its diety? What are its rituals? What is its dogma. Its not a religion. Not even close. Make your case.

    This simply isn't true. Scientific theories are not guesses based on ideology.

    As used in science, a theory is an explanation or model based on observation, experimentation, and reasoning, especially one that has been tested and confirmed as a general principle helping to explain and predict natural phenomena.

    Any scientific theory must be based on a careful and rational examination of the facts. A fact is something that is supported by unmistakeable evidence. For example, temperatures are higher now than 100 years ago.

    Facts may be interpreted in different ways by different individuals, but that doesn't change the facts themselves.

    Theories may be good, bad, or indifferent. They may be well established by the factual evidence, or they may lack credibility. Before a theory is given any credence in the scientific community and becomes accepted as a scientific theory, it must be subjected to "peer review." This means that the proposed theory must be published in a legitimate scientific journal in order to provide the opportunity for other scientists to evaluate the relevant factual information and publish their conclusions. Bogus theories get exposed quickly. Consensus is reached on others.

    Some dubious "scientists" refuse to subject their "theories" to peer reviews, because they know they don't fit the facts. This mindset is distorted by the concept of "good science" vs. "bad science" (anything not in agreement with them).

    The problem with the term "conservationist" as the word has been used in America is that they have always been in charge of exploitation, not conservation. The Louisiana Office of Conservation is in charge of exploiting Louisiana's oil and gas resources. It doesn't conserve a damn thing. The people conserving Louisiana's resources are in the Department of Environmental Quality.

    For me, that is taking a shallow, dim-witted, superficial, and stereotyped look at it.
     
  3. gumborue

    gumborue Throwin Ched

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    i wonder why their cross to bear isnt abortion?
     
  4. LaSalleAve

    LaSalleAve when in doubt, mumble

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    see i don't believe in any deity, i am for legislation on global warming as long as it does not cost the taxpayer. I think that we should be looking at some alternative fuels, and affordable technology to free our dependance on foreign oil, namely saudi arabia, it pisses me off, that some saudi prince is having a big breasted woman feed him grapes every time i fill my tank.

    as far as the religious people, the only reason i wondered that is because you know that there are people out there that think we cannot harm the earth and it will go boom when god wants it to.
     
  5. martin

    martin Banned Forever

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    when you buy something, you should remember that you are the one who bought it. if you dont want to that dude to have the grapes or the slut, then buy a bicycle and move closer to work. it is weird that you would hate stuffing money in the saudi pockets, and yet you continue doing it.

    perhaps if we change our own lives on our own, we would not push the government so much to force us to change our lives.

    i agree about the harming the earth part. we can certainly change the earth a little. but to call that change "harm" is weird. as far as i can tell, we humans have made the earth a zillion times more livable for ourselves. and the most important way we can continue to raise everyone's standard of living is by making them rich. that means not restricting the economy.
     
  6. Bandit88

    Bandit88 Old Enough to Know Better

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    We've had this discussion (you and I) before. Gaia, the rituals are legion, the dogma is on TV every day, all day. There are heretics. There are priests. It's adherents have religious fervor, even though the vast majority of them follow the dogma based purely on faith. blah. blah. blah. You don't agree. I get it. It's too bad. I like you better when you're right. :)

    Sigh. I know what a theory is. I know in great detail how peer review works. I also know that assumptions are made where data does not provide conclusions. I also know that data, universally accepted, is often later found to laughably WRONG. You spent a lot of words on a concept we both agree on (theories are theories) and no words on my point (scientific theories are often used for political purposes, significantly so in this case).

    I thought you owned woodlands, that you exploit for future revenue? In order to make this profitable, I'm guessing you conserve that resource. You're a conservationist.

    The true distinction is that Conservationists are pragmatic and Environmentalists are idealogues. Just like other religious fanatics. :)

    Wow. Did I touch a nerve? :lol: I believe I called it an "image", which would by default basically make it a stereotype. And stereotypes are useful, largely because they are generally 90% correct!

    :grin:
     
  7. red55

    red55 curmudgeon Staff Member

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    They are used by politicians an non-scientists for political purposes, but not by scientists. A professional paper that tried to use politics in lieu of scientific evidence would never even get published, much less challenged.

    I'm both, the terms are not mutually exclusive.

    Nonsense, that is a neo-con talking point and it is mere semantics. The terms are 90% synonymous, it's just that each have pejorative connotations that are probably unfair in each case. Not all conservationists are right-wing exploiters and not all environmentalists are left-wing tree-huggers.

    Who told you that? One of the fairies in martin's closet? :hihi:
     
  8. Bandit88

    Bandit88 Old Enough to Know Better

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    What are you doin' diggin' around in martin's closet? :nope: Bad idea.
     
  9. Bengal Buddy

    Bengal Buddy Founding Member

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    Welcome to Tiger Forum.
     
  10. shaqazoolu

    shaqazoolu Concentrated Awesome

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    Why is global warming even a major point of politics to begin with? It's hot. Go buy a pair of shorts and a tshirt, go swimming, buy a window unit or a fan and get over it.

    Fix the economy. This is like fighting over what color to paint the neighbor's freaking walls while your own house doesn't even have a roof on it.
     

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