Obama really thinks he can spin this into something good for all Americans and he cancelled his trip to continue trying right through Sunday. I'm afraid the few remaining Democrat dissenters are only giving the illusion of putting up a fight and will cave at the 11th hour. It won't save them They are all history.
so which is it, o ye sages of tf, "smoke and mirrors" or "we all know what is in the bill"? opinions like these make me suspicious of motivations of people against this bill. it smells like people are looking for any reason to be against it without really evaluating it. i realize you are two different people, possibly with two different and valid opinions-- i am not criticizing either of you. i didnt take anything out of context. that quote was exactly the headline on the main webpage of foxnews, although i realize it wasnt intended. my argument for that is that we are republic, a representative democracy and not a true democracy. the people actually have no right, or at least no mechanism, to tell the politicians how to vote. i appoint them to use their time, access and wisdom to make decisions for me. i havent the time to do it, nor has hardly any other american. for all intents and purposes, my opinion, and yours, are invalid, particularly on such a complex issue.
What Obama said to Baier was when the bill is passed we'll know what's in it. My motivations are simple. I don't want the government telling me how to handle my insurance decisions.
How exactly will the government tell you what insurance decision you can make? What part of this bill makes people who already have health insurance change anything?
I won't know until it's too late. Your defense of this abomination is confusing to me. You are too smart to let congress manipulate the system to achieve their ends. The accounting alone is criminal. If you believe this bill will reduce the deficit, I cannot help you. You are off the cliff.
But you fear them, even though it is too early. You are too smart to think that political maneuvering is something new or that doing nothing solves anything. Make your case. What is the crime? Who committed it?
since this thread has taken a turn to health care, i might as well tie what i am thinking about it to these statements instead of the health care thread, because it pretty well sums up why i am against this bill... the way this thing morphs and changes seemingly by the second, and there is so much buried in it already, we dont truly know wtf we are getting. at least i dont. there are already things i am opposed to, but i do not trust this congress to put together a final bill that does not contain even a lot more that i am opposed to. this thing is so convoluted and massive that i just dont trust the final outcome. instead of this monstrosity, i would have rather seen a series of smaller bills, in increments, addressing different areas of health care reform, to let people vote on reform in ways that will let some things pass, turn down others. almost by category instead of a "everything including the kitchen sink" type bill. give us a bill on things that can be done in the areas of technology that can reduce health care costs. give us a bill on how to serve the working poor without insurance and low income children to get the er's back to emergencies, and not as primary health care for those without insurance, driving up the states costs. give things more of a chance for an up or down vote on the merits of each bill, not this all or nothing. i HATE this bill and that is part of the reason. no, everyone would not get what they want if done like i want, but it would better serve the people, imo. it would be a fight, but i also believe we would get better reform. and i think that on the case by case basis, the support or lack of support by the public would be very convincing. if people werent so freakin confused about what each bill was, they would feel more comfortable with saying "yes, i think this bill is a good idea" and trust what they were getting, and those they didnt like say "no we dont like and this is why". i think the middle would have a better chance of prevailing in a small series of bills. and yes red, you said so yourself. the way it is being done is the same way the pubs shoved some sh*t down our throats. i detest it when either side does it. in this case, i dont think fearing the unknown is unreasonable. this bill is a monster that could have anything thown in, who knows what might be buried in the fine print and interpretation already, and is so mf'ing large and all over the place, makes it the perfect piece of legislation for getting things into. this is where i am disappointed in the moderates for not killing it early on and not saying "lets do things different and in a more reasonable fashion". edit: i know this is now in two threads, but what the hell. lol
What are the things that you are opposed to? We elect representatives in this country to vote for us and that is what they are doing. If we don't like the job, we vote them out. That is why the republicans are out. I wish the bill were smaller, too, but not 1,000 separate pieces all geared to getting some one elected locally. Who could follow that? Thats the problem with a lot of government regulations--a piecemeal approach where all the elements are not working together.
Everyone has seen what is listed in both the senate and house bill. It's no mystery, even though you pretend it is. Keep pretending. Again, your only purpose was to be snide. It contributed nothing and certainly disputed nothing. A convenient bow out on this bill. It gives you high moral ground to say, " I didn't do that, what could I do?" It's bullsh!t and I doubt anyone here is impressed with it. But keep on living the dream.
But your side had a problem with that after the 2001 election? Hell you guys where whining wanting to be a true democracy!
