Its not a liberal trait. You made a statement and it is up to you to back it up. Your own source had a disclaimer saying that the information the linked article contained may not be accurate. As someone who doesn't know much about Waco why would I start my learning on a website that flatly states in could contain faulty information? Wikipedia can be a very good source of information, but because of its format it can also be a very poor one. I would not use an article that has a flag on it as a source.
debatable Says who? Who makes the rules? Maybe you should learn but I never said you had to use my sources. Didn't realize what the flag meant so I'm stupid I bet your paycheck against mine that the raid did happen and in fact the Clinton administration allowed torture techiques to be used on the people at Waco. And Janet Reno did in fact say the buck stopped with her. Put your money where your mouth is...:thumb: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/713648.stm "I made the decision. I'm accountable. The buck stops with me," she said at the time, silencing some of her critics with her characteristic bluntness.
In this case, fine I'll stick up for Clinton and Reno. And you apparently are sticking up for gun-running, anarchist, armed radical religious kooks who shot police officers.
Edit: Now that I thought about it you have no defense for my posts in this thread so you resort to name calling. Everything I've said here is laid out and I'll let everyone decide the results for themselves.
Re: McCain: soldier's lives "wasted" http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070301/ap_on_el_pr/mccain2008_19 McCain is a former POW from the VN war. Now I will tell you what EVERYONE has wrong about these statements. The statements from Obama and McCain are fair statements. The problem is the statements have different meanings in the two possible contexts in which they CAN be interpreted, and opponents of the two men chose the worst possible context. Whether a life was "wasted" can be interpreted at a personal level (individual or family) and by different people it can be viewed at a military or foreign policy level by folks in Washington who operate at those levels. The politicians don't know anyone who died personally, and they are not attempting to make statements about the value of the individuals life at the personal level. The politicians view the soldiers lives as a resource expended in pursuit of a national goal. Nothing personal, just business. To the extent that a national goal is worth achieving, and it is pursued efficiently and effectively, some loss of life may be viewed as unavoidable and ultimately "worth it" if the worthwhile objective is achieved. However, from a military or foreign policy point of view, if the objective turns out to be "not as important as we thought when we started" or if it is pursued inefficiently or ineffectively, and more lives are lost than anyone anticipated, for an objective much less important than originally lost, then some of the lives lost may be viewed as having been wasted. It's not just a democrat thing, but if you operate at high levels in the govt., you have to ask "is the benefit I'm getting worth the price that I'm paying in human lives", and if the answer is "no", what else would you call that from the military perspective?
Re: McCain: soldier's lives "wasted" McCain's remarks were in the context of not having enough troops and a lack of aggressiveness in fighting the war. Obama's was from another direction entirely.
Re: McCain: soldier's lives "wasted" That's true, but both are speaking from the same general "military / foreign policy" context, and in that context, it is ok for both to observe that lives have been wasted, IMO.
Re: McCain: soldier's lives "wasted" Not at all. Military resources are wasted any time a government starts a war it cannot win and more so when it continues to pursue a failed strategy in a war it cannot win. Part of those wasted military resources are human resources. This is what both politicians are talking about. The failure to talk about this squandering of US military personnel, power, and prestige is at the core of the Bush administration's Iraqi blunder. Attempts by political opponents to divert attention from the obviously wasteful military failure of the administration to some purported criticism of the sacrifice of soldiers, is a very transparent smokescreen. The "swift-boating" is starting early in this long election.
In all honesty, lives of soldiers are wasted in every war since the beginning of time. No war is run perfectly and there will always be fatal judgement mistakes made by the commanders. See Operation Market Garden, Gallipoli, etc etc etc
