Obama obviously needed to fill the ticket with something he sorely lacks...experience. Biden will fill that role but now can be considered as someone who bucks the "change" stance. The question is does Biden's experience outweigh his old school politics? Will uncertain voters now feel the ticket is complete and vote for Obama or will they see it as a ploy and not really an asset? Can we expect Obama to even use Biden as an asset if he is elected? Obama comes off as highly arrogant and doesn't seem to trust many people outside his little circle. Will he consider Biden's recommendations or just blow him off? DISCLAIMER: Sorry Red, I didn't search tons of websites to try to find proof of every word I wrote. I know that conservatives aren't allowed to have opinions. Sorry that I don't conform to the hypocritical liberal point of view.
As a conservative I agree with you. There are things I really like about Biden even though he is a democrat. I'm hoping that Biden runs the White house while Obama looks presidential but I believe Obama is to arrogant, full of himself so Biden probably won't be in the picture.
What's discrediting about it? I need somebody online to do math for me? Apparently you do. How's the below for numbers? Your contention is that Obama can lose 4-6 million democratic votes and win? You are actually contending this? A yes/no answer will do fine. Don't try to spin this one. Obama popular vote - 17,535,458 Hillary popular vote - 17,493,836 http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/democratic_vote_count.html I notice that you listed specific, vocal Repubs, but not % of voters that are supported by polls. You know, like you did when you showed the % of Hillary votes going to McCain? 14 Elected officials and a radio guy that you wish herpes upon. Okay... Do you also contend that these groups are representative of 22-28% of Republicans? Because you said "it's the same". You support this because there is no poll of "neo-cons" and "pro-lifers", I suppose. What is the motivation of these voters? They have a candidate that disagrees with them on some conservative ideals, does agree with them on others, but for some reason they will pick a candidate that agrees with none of their ideals? You show nice little links that do not represent any real numbers in the party. These guys are a drop in the bucket. The numbers you showed for Obama defectors are real and large. Not worried about it? I am sure Obama and the dems are. If the trend continues, Obama will not win.
No one has to prove their opinions, Heaven knows I have plenty of them. I just have a thing about folks tossing out "facts" that are not true. It happens all the time in FSA and I just keep asking that they back it up if someone calls them on it. And I don't mind being asked to do the same thing, that happens a lot, too. It's perfectly acceptable to respond by saying that their statement is their personal opinion and they have no sources to offer for its validity.
Well, this is more like it, but it doesn't illustrate your contention that "Obama can't lose 10% of Hillary's suporters and win". It just shows that Obama and Hillary were very close in popular votes in the primaries. Say Obama loses those 1.7 million Hillary supporters in an election with an anticipated 125 million voters, that's a 1% swing. I think Obama can survive that easily. I couldn't find such a poll . . . just like you, so I found the best evidence that I could. And it does indicate that republicans are far from 100% behind McCain. Well said--a drop in the bucket. Why do you think it works any differently for moderates and liberals? Hillary's supporters are not likely to pick a candidate that agrees with none of their ideals. If Obama were worried about it, he could have just named Hillary. I wouldn't count on that "trend" holding past the conventions.
Your links showed a loss of 22-28% of Hillary voters to McCain. Just by using the votes she got in some primaries(not all), 22% of 17.5 million is 3.8 million. 28% projects higher, as does the thrown out primaries, as does the number of democrats that did not vote, but would have voted for Hillary. You are arguing about 10%, which is a number I gave but the number reflected in the polls is much higher. In 2004 Bush won by a margin of barely 3 million votes. In regards to Obama we are not talking about swing votes, or undecided, but democratic votes. You believe that Obama can withstand to lose that many votes? Because the numbers do not support your contention that it is a wash. You said it is the same for repubs going to Obama. That simply is not true. Listing 15 public figures does not add up to 4-6 million voters. It is apples and oranges. Because the very polls you linked show that Hillary supporters will do just that. There are no polls to support your contention that repubs will switch. He is worried about it, but far less worried about what she would have done to him had he taken her for a running mate. And I didn't contend that the numbers will hold. I said if they do hold, Obama will lose. You are now changing your argument.
On one hand, Biden was a great choice for Obama, being that Biden is a white male is who one of the most experienced figures on Capital Hill (he has served as a US Senator from 1973 until today--only 5 of our 100 Senators have served longer than Biden, and that does not include Senator John McCain who first entered Congress in the 80's or Senator Hillary Clinton who first entered Congress in the 00's). Biden will be a good attack-dog to put McCain in his place when it comes to what experienced US Senators have to say about the future of our country. Interestingly, Biden is only 65, while McCain is in his 70s. Biden also looks somewhat similar to a younger John McCain (even looks like Les Miles), which is another reason why he was a good choice for Obama (as opposed to some VP who didn't look like a distinguished white male American... esp a minority or a woman). On the other hand, the choice of Biden as VP is a negative in the sense it doesn't do anything to help Obama's message of change. Also, having someone so extremely experienced on Capitol Hill and so extremely experienced at foreign policy (Biden is the Chairman of our Senate's Committee on Foreign Relations) might just underscore Obama’s lack of Capitol Hill experience and national security credentials (similar to how John McCain picking a young, up-and-coming superstar Republican might just underscore how old he is). Finally, the other negative about Obama's choice of Biden as his VP is that Biden is the Senator from Delaware, which isn't a swing state. Biden is a Catholic, and if the Obama-Biden ticket wins, Biden will be the first Roman Catholic vice president in U.S. history. As for the blue-collar vote, Biden comes across a lot like McCain, which I imagine is a huge part of the reason Obama picked him as his VP. As for the Hillary people... all I know is that Red55 was a huge Hillary supporter, and he hasn't jumped ship to the Republicans just because Obama beat Hillary... and I would really be surprised to see any of Hillary's supporters jump ship to the Republicans (except for a few psychos). Is there anybody here who supported Hillary over Obama that will vote for McCain to punish Obama for beating Hillary? If so, please do tell. As for all the talk above about Biden talking about Obama's lack of experience, what did you expect Biden to do when he was running for the DNC Presidential nomination for his second time? Did you expect him to say that his opponent Obama was the greatest? It wasn't until Obama and Hillary beat Biden for the shot at the DNC nomination that Biden jumped on Obama's team (he was one of the big super-delegates that helped sway the DNC power-brokers to Team Obama). Had he not been on Obama's side, Obama would never had chosen to have him as his VP.
I am dizzy from the spin. Biden attacked Obama's lack of experience because Obama has a lack of experience. Period!
I don't know yet, no one does. But he's going to get a 10% boost after the convention and we'll have to see how long that carries. You are right that it is going to be close, but that only makes it clear that your categorical statement that he must lose if even 10% of Hillary's supporters vote McCain is premature and speculative. No, just suggesting that it is not logical to project that far at this point. Next week Obama is going to get a huge bump, but that won't project very far either. The curves are going to go up and down a lot in the next two months.
