Obama and Healthcare reform

Discussion in 'Free Speech Alley' started by SabanFan, Feb 22, 2010.

  1. LaSalleAve

    LaSalleAve when in doubt, mumble

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    so let me get this straight, saving 10% of your money is American, but Government telling you to save 10% of your money is UnAmerican. Government tells you to haul ass when the hurricanes come too, is that UnAmerican? Is it also UnAmerican when Government tells you, that you should get a flu shot? Is it UnAmerican when Government tells you anything?

    Eating - American
    Government tells you to eat - UnAmerican

    Bathing - American
    Government telling you to bathe - UnAmerican

    So was it also UnAmerican when GW Bush told everyone to spend money to help the economy? Or is it just UnAmerican when Obama tells you what to do with your money?

    So when Government steps in and you get fined for your kids not going to school, is that UnAmerican?

    I don't know about any of you, but Government has been a part of everyone's lives since FDR. (some way more than others.) So, all that stuff you say is UnAmerican, seems pretty damned American to me. It may not be how the founding fathers wanted it, Glen Beck, but they also owned slaves, and grew pot. And we all know pot is the devil.
     
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  2. gumborue

    gumborue Painfully Pessimistic

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    no, actually, what i am saying is very "american". levying taxes and spending the money is "american". my vote for those that believe like i do is "american".

    who was hiding it. do you have something valuable to say?

    again, something to say?

    i advocate seeking knowledge and giving it thought. i advocate discussion and then voting.

    even though i found something to write here, im still not sure all those words of yours said anything.


    youre starting to get wacky. anyone that wants to have a valid opinion about mds in the us has to be an md? rural mds "starve"? im advocating the gov to force mds to do something?

    "i dont think they are evil or immoral, just not so altruistic."

    "misnomer"? nope. "misrepresentation" nope. how they "feel"? perhaps you have the best insight into this when they tell you how they "feel" halfway through a bottle of cab sav. all i know is a that the ama supported the bill. is there a larger md group against it? maybe, i dont know.


    probably not as hard, but the whole sob story you listed about mds applies to dvms too. good students, same time commitment, same loan debt. oh, except they dont have the prospects to make same income. granted much less malpratice insurance.
     
  3. Sourdoughman

    Sourdoughman TigerFan of LSU and the Tigerman

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    Slavery in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Slavery in the United States was a form of forced labor which existed as a legal institution on American soil before the founding of the United States in 1776, and remained a legal feature of American society until the passage of the Thirteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution in 1865.[1] It had its origins with the first English colonization of North America in Virginia in 1607, although African slaves were brought to Spanish Florida as early as the 1560s.[2] Most slaves were African and were held by Europeans, although some Native Americans and free blacks also held slaves; there was a small number of white slaves as well.[3]

     
  4. Sourdoughman

    Sourdoughman TigerFan of LSU and the Tigerman

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  5. TheDude

    TheDude I'm calmer than you.

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    You have serious comprehension issues. Requiring me to purchase a product and penalizing me if I don't is very unAmerican. The fact that you cannot comprehend the distinction between this and taxation of the past(pre Obama) is your own problem. I don't get the impression anyone is fooled here.

    Everything I say is of value to those capable of comprehending it. Don't get it? Not a shocker.

    Didn't get the sophomoric explanation of your own contradiction? Not a shocker.
    :rofl::rofl:

    If you want to pass judgement that doctors are not moral enough to suit you, yes you should. Go walk in their shoes or it comes off as pure jealousy. Which is all socialism really is about - coveting. And if the govt does not FORCE doctors to care more about people, how do you propose it happen? You seem to be in favor of govt forcing us for the greater good in virtually every arena. So why can't govt force them? It's for the greater good right?

    You are the ones using extremes now, not me. Your problem is that doctors are not altruistic enough to suit you.

    Sure it is, and I showed why. Overwhelmingly doctors do not belong to this group but you imply that the AMA represents the majority by not qualifying it. There doesn't have to be a larger group to discredit the AMA. The fact that 70% of doctors don't even belong is plenty.
    That much is clear.

    :rofl::rofl:
     
  6. SabanFan

    SabanFan The voice of reason

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    It's Unamerican when the government forces you to do things. Big difference.

    Bush asked. He did not ram through a bill forcing us to spend money to help the economy. Obama's bill requires the purchase of health insurance under threat of penalty.
     
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  7. TheDude

    TheDude I'm calmer than you.

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    Remedial English anyone? Duz we be needin dat?
     
  8. Sourdoughman

    Sourdoughman TigerFan of LSU and the Tigerman

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    Even if what you say is true yet you have no problems with Obama doing this?
    It is so bad that everybody but his sheep know that he has lied time and time again about health care alone.
    Are you sure you aren't Red's other half?
     
  9. HalloweenRun

    HalloweenRun I'll try to be nicer, if you try to be smarter!

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    I am certainly no fan of the so called health care act and I have not followed drama very closely, in fact, hardly at all, since most of this is old, retread stuff that I already knew about..not trying to be condescending, but just laying the ground work that I am not aware of a specific lie by O'bama, since I have not followed his specific statements. That is not saying he has not lied, I just can't say, "this statement was a lie" since I can't quote the first "this statement."

    But I will state without question or caveat that, a lie is a lie, regardless of by whom

    Maybe I am old school, but I hold the President, again, without regard to party, to a higher standard than about anyone else. Maybe it is just me.

    Having stated that, a lie to get us into a war that was unnecessary, is hardly on the same scale as shenanigans over a POLITICAL ISSUE, though the entire LIAR's Scale is all in the unsat category.

    I truly believe what W Bush did in getting us in the IRAQ war is as unforgivable as it can get. I will hold that "grudge" to my grave. OK, I will say it. I HATE him and his cronies for it. Period. Too many have died for, in the end, NOTHING. Yeah, it is very personal with me.

    hwr
     
  10. Sourdoughman

    Sourdoughman TigerFan of LSU and the Tigerman

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    Likely Impacts of Obamacare

    Guarino: Likely Impacts of Obamacare

    Likely Impacts of Obamacare

    Now that Obamacare is being signed into law, it will be useful to review what its likely impacts will be. There will be quite a few:

    1. Deficits will be higher. The national debt will be much higher (i.e., unless taxes are raised significantly. It is now suspected that higher tax levels-- perhaps a value added tax-- will be recommended by Obama's new debt commission).

    2. Premiums will be significantly higher. This will be particularly true for young adults and for men.

    3. Our military strength will be decreased over the long term as military spending is displaced by health care spending.

    4. Our economic strength, and the availability of economic opportunities-- especially for young people-- will be decreased as government and health care consume a greater proportion of the nation's resources; and higher taxes take their toll.

    5. Unemployment of young adults will tend to be higher, and more young adults will be forced to remain living with their parents for prolonged periods.

    6. The market for insurance will be drastically changed. Many insurers will get out of the business for individuals and small groups; or they will jack up their premiums dramatically. The new regulations will force certain responses by insurers. This could potentially lead to more people being uninsured.

    7. Many Americans will potentially face enforcement of the individual mandate by the IRS. Some will face fines and penalties.

    8. Many employers will stop offering insurance and dump their employees on the insurance exchanges. Most people will get their insurance through large employers, through unions or through the state-based exchanges.

    9. There will ultimately be pressure to create a "public option", and later a single payer system, because the situation the new law will create will not be sustainable.

    10. Governmental rationing of health care will take place. If there is a lot of rationing, costs will be better controlled, and premium increases will be less severe. If there is only minimal rationing, costs will be much higher.

    11. The relationship between citizens and the state will be drastically changed. The character of the American people will be changed-- for the worse, because they will be more dependent.

    12. There will be likely be fewer doctors, longer wait times to see a doctor, and longer wait times to access specialized treatments or testing.

    13. The relative state of global peace we have achieved since the end of World War II will be more at risk because America will be weaker; and challenges by new global aggressors will be more difficult to contain. The flourishing of democracies internationally-- including our own-- will be harder to defend.

    14. Recovery from the current recession, and job growth, will be slowed. Employers will be more averse to hiring new employees.

    15. Benefits granted under the publicly subsidized insurance plans will be at grave risk as the nation faces more intense fiscal pressures-- unless taxes are increased much further.

    16. State governments will be forced to spend much more, and thereby tax much more, although this effect will be lessened somewhat if reconciliation passes. But then the federal government would be taxing and spending more.

    17. The insurance market will tend to concentrate further into a small number of national carriers and smaller plans that function mainly at the state level. There will be less choice, and the plans will tend to be expensive. But ultimately, the federally regulated exchanges will be the place where most people get their insurance.

    18. There will be further consolidation and "corporatizing" of medical practices.

    19. Millions of seniors will be at risk of losing their Medicare Advantage plans.

    Many conservatives are talking up repeal at this point, but I am not sure I see that happening. Perhaps our best hope for repeal will be through the process of judicial review in the courts.

    Fortunately, it will take a long while for some of the most adverse impacts associated with Obamacare to materialize. However, Democrats and progressives will be blamed for all of the disappointments and difficulties that citizens face, and the nation itself faces, in the future as these impacts manifest themselves. And they will richly deserve that blame-- whether it is with respect to our health insurance, the economy, or our international standing.
     

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