Obama administration dismantling CIA; Clinton Years Take 2

Discussion in 'Free Speech Alley' started by islstl, Apr 24, 2009.

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  1. SabanFan

    SabanFan The voice of reason

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    Nobody, including myself, is saying there weren't abuses at Abu Gharaib. Are you suggesting those should have been swept under the carpet?
     
    SabanFan, Apr 29, 2009
    #51
  2. LaSalleAve

    LaSalleAve when in doubt, mumble

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    he is really jeb or billy bush disguised. probably billy because of the obvious homophobe responses from time to time. closet case if have ever seen one.
     
    LaSalleAve, Apr 29, 2009
    #52
  3. luvdimtigers

    luvdimtigers Founding Member

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    no, I'm saying that Bush shouldn't have hung it on the foot soldiers. It was policy. Stress Positons, scaring them with dogs, etc. The same things were done at Gitmo, just no pics.
     
    luvdimtigers, Apr 29, 2009
    #53
  4. SabanFan

    SabanFan The voice of reason

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    Anyone who calls me a homophobe is a C***S***ing MuthaF***er

    Total BS not worthy of a response.
     
    SabanFan, Apr 29, 2009
    #54
  5. TheDude

    TheDude I'm calmer than you.

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    Those methods may very well have been approved there but the pictures I saw did not look like interrogations. They looked like photo ops for morons. If they were not trying to extract information, but instead just doing it for kicks(as it appeared), then the soldiers deserved what they got. I doubt there was a standing order to humiliate or scare prisoners when you get sleepy on guard duty.

    But I don't have a problem with humiliating or scaring someone I want info from. Anyone who suggests that is torture, needs to remember that when we release these guys, and one of them puts a knife to your child's throat.

    Amazing how many anti-death penalty people get perfectly homicidal when you personalize it.

    This reminds me of the complaints in the first Iraq war when we bulldozed and buried alive some Iraq soldiers. The complaint was that was an inhumane way to die. As opposed to being shot with a M-16, or a frag grenade, or an artillery shell, or a tank, or a sniper, or a flame thrower, or a 2000 lb bomb, or a cruise missile, or a bayonet. :insane:


    People in America have been at the country club for too long.
     
    TheDude, Apr 29, 2009
    #55
  6. luvdimtigers

    luvdimtigers Founding Member

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    Well, I'm going to lose sleep over that.
     
    luvdimtigers, Apr 29, 2009
    #56
  7. red55

    red55 curmudgeon Staff Member

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    For those of you who jumped the gun on this story . . .

    Obama seeks to block release of abuse photos

    WASHINGTON (AP) — President Barack Obama declared Monday he would try to block the court-ordered release of photos showing U.S. troops abusing prisoners, abruptly reversing his position out of concern the pictures would "further inflame anti-American opinion" and endanger U.S. forces in Iraq and Afghanistan. The White House had said last month it would not oppose an appeals court ruling that set a May 28 deadline for releasing dozens of photos from military investigations of alleged misconduct.

    But American commanders in the war zones have expressed deep concern about fresh damage the photos might do, especially as the U.S. tries to wind down the Iraq war and step up operations against the Taliban and al-Qaida in Afghanistan.

    The Pentagon conducted 200 investigations into alleged abuse connected with the photos in question. The administration did not provide an immediate accounting of how they turned out.

    "This is not a situation in which the Pentagon has concealed or sought to justify inappropriate action," Obama said of the photos. "In fact, the most direct consequence of releasing them, I believe, would be to further inflame anti-American opinion and to put our troops in greater danger."

    Obama said later, "I want to emphasize that these photos that were requested in this case are not particularly sensational, especially when compared to the painful images that we remember from Abu Ghraib."

    On Capitol Hill, Republicans welcomed the change. A military group also said it was relieved.

    This time he's kicking the decision back into court, where his administration still may be forced into releasing the photos. Indeed, there is some evidence that the administration has little case left. Gibbs said the president instructed administration lawyers to challenge the photos' release based on the national security implications. He said that argument was not used before. But the Bush administration already argued against the release on national security grounds — and lost.

    The court also has already rejected another argument the president and his spokesman made, that the photos add little of value to the public's understanding of the issue.

    Military commanders' concerns were most intense with respect to Afghanistan. The release would coincide with the spring thaw that usually heralds the year's toughest fighting there — and as thousands of new U.S. troops head into Afghanistan's volatile south.

    Defense Secretary Robert Gates said he had once held the view that it might be best to "go through the pain once" and release a large batch of images now, since so many are at issue in multiple lawsuits. But he — and the president — changed their minds when Odierno and McKiernan expressed "very great worry that release of these photographs will cost American lives," Gates said before the House Armed Services Committee.
    "That's all it took for me," Gates said.

    Read the rest . . .
     
    red55, May 13, 2009
    #57
  8. SabanFan

    SabanFan The voice of reason

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    Nobody said Obama was dumb. He now realizes that the release would not be politically expedient. It has nothing to do with national security, rather with job security.
     
    SabanFan, May 13, 2009
    #58
  9. TheDude

    TheDude I'm calmer than you.

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    It will be interesting if his decision will withstand appeal by the aclu. Invoking national security as his defense may have come too late. I don't think they bothered to use this in the original case and if not, it isn't going to work on appeal.

    Strange that so many people claiming this is torture(like Obama), argue it must stop so that our enemies don't do it to us. But by that logic, what will the release of pictures do, except the very thing they claim to be afraid of? He couldn't figure this out before?
     
    TheDude, May 14, 2009
    #59
  10. PURPLE TIGER

    PURPLE TIGER HOPE is not a strategy!

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    botch1  /bɒtʃ/ [​IMG] Show Spelled Pronunciation [boch] [​IMG] Show IPA
    –verb (used with object) 1.to spoil by poor work; bungle (often fol. by up): He botched up the job thoroughly. 2.to do or say in a bungling manner.3.to mend or patch in a clumsy manner.



    botched definition | Dictionary.com


    Between comments about 9/11 terrorists arriving from Canada, flying a jet over New York City, this back & forth issue, etc. - somebody in this administration needs to get a handle before speaking and/or acting.

    If this were college sports, we would be discussing: Lack of Institutional Control

    I'll cut some slack considering we're only four months into this administration. I'm hopeful it will change but I think Obama has filled positions with less than qualified personnel. I also think people are starting to realize his smooth style doesn't compensate for his lack of experience and knowledge.

    Obama...HINT: :911:
     
    PURPLE TIGER, May 14, 2009
    #60
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