Now I've seen it all

Discussion in 'Free Speech Alley' started by Bengal B, Mar 23, 2004.

  1. MiketheTiger69

    MiketheTiger69 Founding Member

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    Not really. If you are a Christian and have read the Bible, especially the NT, then you know the answers to these questions. I am not going to specifically quote things here because it would take too long but Jesus says He is "The Way, the Truth and the Light." He also says "No one can get to Heaven except through me."

    Paul, and I believe James and maybe Peter, all say that no matter how good you are, you still aren't good enough to get into Heaven without receiving the forgiveness of Jesus Christ on the Cross. Jesus also states that the only unforgivable sin is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, which as I understand is a total rejection of the very existence of God. At least that is the way the NIV Bible teaches it. So even someone as evil as the people you mentioned could go and even be in Heaven now if they truly repented before they died. Jeffrey Dahmer and Tim McVeigh did just that and to know if they could obtain salvation after what they did should bring joy to each of us, for two reasons. Number one, we should be happy that one less soul is in Hell and also, and more importantly, it should bring us joy knowing that if they could be saved, then certainly there is hope for us.

    And before anyone says that they don't understand how these people would not suffer some punishment of some kind, that is the power of the Cross! Remember, we are all just as guilty as they are. Paul tells us this in Romans 3 and James tells us again in 2:10. If we commit just one sin, no matter how big or small, we are guilty of breaking the whole law.

    The Bible also tells us quite plainly what happens to nonbelievers. This applies to all who do not believe in Jesus. Just because you believe in God does not mean you believe in Jesus and His death and acceptance of His gift of salvation. To me this is a furtherance of the unforgivable sin. To believe in God but not His Son is to call God a liar. Jesus says, "If you have seen Me then you have seen the Father.'' He also says numerous times, "He who sent Me" and things like what He teaches and what His will is, is not His but that of "the Father".

    So it is plain to me, imo, what happens to people who don't believe. Keeping in mind it is not my place to judge and I don't have any idea of what happens to these people just before they die, I would say under the circumstances that Atta and the other hijackers and so forth are not enjoying any virgins or anything else for that matter.

    And I don't think it states anywhere that anyone in Heaven will enjoy greater bliss or anyone in Hell will suffer more than anyone else. As a matter of fact,it states just the opposite in the parable of the workers hired at different times in the day but all paid the same wage. All will reap the same amount of reward or punishment. There are no classes in either. And rickyd and I discussed the pros and cons of Purgartory earlier but if you read the Bible and understand it, then you would know there is no purgatory or limbo because if either of those existed then Jesus' death and resurrection would be a lie. Because then our salvation would be based upon our works and deeds and Paul tells us quite plainly that is not the case.


    Do nonbelievers have the same chance as anyone else? I would think so, because the Bible states that Jesus' gift is available to all, but they have to make the choice as to whether they receive it or not. God doesn't force it on anyone. Just as any gift, it is up to the recipient to accept it or refuse it, use it or lose it. God doesn't put a lot of rules and regulations out there. He blesses us with the gift of the Holy Spirit which guides us and protects us. He tells us through His word in the Bible how we should live.

    Just like in that movie "Overboard" where Roddy McDowell tells Goldie Hawn after she has been "rescued" from Kurt Russell, "You, madam, have the rare experience of seeing life from the other side. What you do with that knowledge is entirely up to you." So too is it for the one who wants to be a Christian. Not all succeed at it, as illustrated by the parable of The Four Soils. So, ask yourself, "What kind of soil am I?"
     
  2. Sourdoughman

    Sourdoughman TigerFan of LSU and the Tigerman

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    Here is an article on the flood as described in the bible:
    http://www.chick.com/bc/2001/preflood.asp

    Hovind's contention is that evolution is not science, but an alternate belief system - a religion. Surely it takes more faith to believe that animals came from rocks than it does to believe in a loving Creator Who designed them.

    Enjoy
     
  3. martin

    martin Banned Forever

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    the bible is the one true revelation.

    "These shall ye eat of all that are in the waters: whatsoever hath fins and scales in the waters, in the seas, and in the rivers, them shall ye eat.
    10 And all that have not fins and scales in the seas, and in the rivers, of all that move in the waters, and of any living thing which is in the waters, they shall be an abomination unto you:
    11 They shall be even an abomination unto you; ye shall not eat of their flesh, but ye shall have their carcases in abomination.
    12 Whatsoever hath no fins nor scales in the waters, that shall be an abomination unto you."

    -Leviticus 11:9-12

    please take the word of god seriously and do not eat lobster. and please spread the good news of the lord to others, and say no to crawfish boils, for jeebus hates that.
     
  4. MiketheTiger69

    MiketheTiger69 Founding Member

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    So I guess I am still a Catholic too and I am going to Hell because I left the church and embraced the Salvation of the Cross? Sorry ol' boy but returning to the Catholic church just ain't an option for me! My baptism in the Catholic church was absolutely meaningless because it was someone else's decision, not mine. I had no need of baptism then because, as an innocent and pure child, I was free from sin. And yeah, yeah I know all about Original sin. But the legacy of Adam and Eve is the NATURE TO SIN, not the sin itself!

    If you want my views, then go the posts and discussions rickyd and I had on Tacky Passion Merchandise,if it's stilll available. But basically my point is that the church, over the years, gradually became something different than it was to begin with. Just because the Bible did not exist as such until later, does not mean that the things in it were not being preached as such. The early apostles and Paul taught directly the teachings of Jesus and over the years, for various reasons, the church split and became something entirely different from what it originally was.
     
  5. MiketheTiger69

    MiketheTiger69 Founding Member

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    Sorry to burst your sarcastic bubble my friend but read Acts 10:9-16. Jesus tells Peter in a vision that it is okay to eat the things previously forbidden in the OT. These prohibitions, like the sacrificial system, were tests of faith and loyalty. And like them, they were made null and void after the death and resurrection. And I can already hear someone saying "What about the other rules, are they null and void as well? Some are some aren't. The rules regarding morality are. The ceremonial rules are not. If you want to know what they are, read the book.
     
  6. MiketheTiger69

    MiketheTiger69 Founding Member

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    Thanks for the link, SDM. I am not trying to be sarcastic or critical in anyway, but don't you think that, in spite of all the scientific knowledge we have, that the creationist's claim that the earth is only a few thousand years old is ridiculous? And let's not forget the quote from Gen. 1:7 " And the Lord God formed the man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being." NIV
     
  7. ColonelHapablap

    ColonelHapablap Founding Member

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    Put yourself in God's place for a second. You're talking to Moses. Do you say, "Don't eat pork - it's an abomination" or do you say, "If you eat pork, make sure you cook it just right because you could get triganosis and die. And, by the way, fat causes heart disease, so keep that to a minimum too." I think the former.
     
  8. martin

    martin Banned Forever

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    right, might as well lie to moses and call it an abomination, because humans are too dumb to cook.

    besides, mikethetiger69 told me that it was a temporary test of faith to not eat shrimp, not a health issue.
     
  9. MiketheTiger69

    MiketheTiger69 Founding Member

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    As goofy as he is, ya just gotta love him!!!
     
  10. LSUsupaFan

    LSUsupaFan Founding Member

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    But you are wrong. Read the writings of the early Christians, like Clement's letter to the Corinthians, the writings of Origen, the Didache (Teachings of the Apostles) or the Protoevangelium of James, and you will see that from the very begginings of the Church basic Catholic tennents have been taught and held too. The Protestant church has only the Bible, and while scripture is proffitable for teaching (timothy) it is not nor does it claim to be sufficient. Salvation was mediated by Christ through Peter who he made the rock and gave the keys and the Church. There is a traceable and unbroken chain that traces the RCC back to Peter then Linus then Clement and so on.

    Name even one Catholic doctrine that has ever changed. You can't because none exists.

    And as to your comments about infant baptism, Acts tells us the Apostles baptised entire housholds. This would include infants. At Baptism we are born again in Christ through the Father Son and Holy Ghost. At our Confirmation(also in Acts) we make this decision conciously and hands are laid and we receive the Holy Spirit.

    Don't get me wrong there is alot of truth in the Protestant churches, but much more error.

    For example until 1929 all churches taught contraception was immoral. the Anglicans changed there stanct in 1929. Soon after all major Protestant churches fell to this error. Today the Church stands alone against this willful violation of the Natural Law.
     

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