Martin, while I agree with your points of evolution and the foundation of life on Earth since the days of "primordial soup" I do disagree with the way you talk about Christians. Even if you don't believe in Christianity, you should believe that some things you say could be offensive to others. That is something you should believe. I'm a Christian but I'm what I call a "cafeteria Christian". I don't like certain things about every Church, so I would rather remain Agnostic to all the denominations. But even though I don't agree with these things, I'm not going to run around and just say anything I want about them. Some people do believe them, and who am I to just blow off another person's feelings? This is where I get angry at atheists. It has nothing to do with me trying to convince you that you're wrong and I'm right. I get angry at people that are totally oblivious and just say anything they want. If you don't believe, fine...but don't step on my toes in the process. Referring to God as "the wizard" is an example of this. How would you like me to refer to your mom every time as "the whore that gave birth to you". After all, I don't know her right? I mean I'm just using that as an example, don't get me wrong in thinking I'm calling her that. But do you get my point? I don't expect you to call my God "God", but I do expect you to show a little respect. Especially since you are obviously educated from what I've read in your posts.
do you make fun of horoscopes in the newspaper? what about astrologists? psychics? palm readers? tarot cards? crystal balls? do you think any of these things are silly? yunno some people believe these things. am i to respect it because they believe it? to me christianity is identical to tarot card and palm readers. the only difference is that christianity has alot more people brainwashing you and a more complex background of stuff to remember in the bible. both involve magic and wizardry. definition of wizard: One who practices magic; a sorcerer or magician. i don't see how jesus is not the greatest human sorcerer of all time according to christianity. in the passion of the christ i saw him heal a man's ear just by waving at him. do i mean to make fun of christianity, by using these words? of course. but christianity is different than christians. you are right, i should be more careful to not be disrespectful to the people with the beliefs i think are so impossibly stupid. there are plenty of people i respect who have these beliefs, and like i said before, i cant explain it. so again, please recognize that i mean to be critical of a set of beliefs, not the peopole who hold those beliefs. also if you called my mom a whore, i dont think i would get mad, you don't even know her, and i have no irrational attachment to her either, but that is a different topic.
ok, i am not nearly as opposed to the idea of a "prime mover" like steven hawking would say, or just a generic god or creator. i personally don't buy it, but i can much more easily see how others do than the specifics of christianity, or any other religion. to me it seems very silly, but given that we can describe him in literally any way we want, it is sort of a waste of time to try to point out the inconsistencies. i can argue that omnipotence and omnicience are incomapatible, because knowing the future means that acting in the present would change the future and your knowledge of it would be wrong. or that freewill is an illusion because the future is already known by the creator. and then we can just shrug our shoulders and say "well, he can do whatever...he is god....he laughs at contradictions...he can make a stone so heavy that even he can't carry it" in the absense of any other reason for the universe, i don't think its insane to guess some being thing created it. it just is unknowable, and that is just a guess. but religion, that is totally different. with religion we have humans calling the shots, making up things very specific things and attributing them to god as they go along. a couple days ago we have the pope saying too much sports is bad on sunday. we have thousands of other arbitrary rules. jews don't like to eat pork and cheese together, they figure god cares about that. my friends used to give up fast food for lent, as if that pleases the guy who created the universe. all over the world, people have different things they think matter to god, and they are really different and each thinks the other has everything wrong. some even think the others are going to burn in hell. and i have read alot about folklore, even studied it at LSU ( :geaux: ). i understand the sociology of urban legends.i have read books and books about legends that are incredibly stupid, but people believe. i know what has to be in a story to make it catchy. i know how eager people are to believe things. and it seems so clear that the bible is the most catchy legend of all. if you talk about it long enough, people will eventually claim you just have to have "faith". and that is true. i don't have it though, and i cant force it on myself. i guess it is eternal hell for me.
Ah, but you do have faith. You have faith in your own idea and concept about it. You do realize that you have about as much faith in your belief that I do in mine, right? So who is right here, you tell me? Does it even matter who is right? It doesn't matter to me whether you believe in astrology, psychics, whatever. If you do believe in it and I don't, I'm not going to look down on you. You believe in a life with no afterlife and no supreme being. That's your faith. My faith is an afterlife and a supreme being. On that same note, I'm not going to try to make you live your life according to my beliefs, so why make me live mine according to your beliefs? By the way, I can play the game you play: You do trust what you're saying is correct to you, don't you? Yeah, whatever. At least you think it makes you sound cool in your argument, I'll give you that.
thanks! i am glad you understand the relationship between me and my mom. if you came over to my house and called her a whore, i would sleep through it. it may amaze you, but i have outgrown caring about namecalling. also, i am aware words have many definitions. intelligent people might have known i meant this one: Faith: 2. Belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence. 4. The theological virtue defined as secure belief in God and a trusting acceptance of God's will. The body of dogma of a religion: the Muslim faith. credit dictionary.com
As I would sleep through somebody referring to my God as a "wizard". But I doubt that you would sit there and be ok with it if every time somebody was talking about your mom they referred to her as being a whore. If you say you would be ok with that you are either sick or lying. I'm kind of leaning towards the latter. Anyhow, you got the point. As usual with your kind, you're too busy trying to come up with a defense instead of applying logic skills and actually thinking about it. You were born with two ears and one mouth for a reason (I would say God gave you two ears and a mouth but wouldn't want you to cry about me "brainwashing you".) I obviously know the multiple meanings of faith as do you. An "intelligent" person would have picked up on the sarcastic tone of me posting the definition?
ok fine your god is not a wizard. i dunno how he will be expected to cast any healing spells, or how he did creation or lightning bolts or anything, but if you say your personal god is not a wizard, but is in fact a muggle, then that is fine with me. i noticed you put the word "intelligent" in quotes when referring to me. does that mean i am a dummy? lighten up. we disagree, cool off.
It's not about whether we agree or disagree on whether there is a God. My problem is your attitude of not respecting those that do believe, just b/c you do not. That is very shallow and close minded, as well as selfish. You obviously don't care, that's fine. Whatever. I don't fault you, I fault your parents for not teaching you some things, that is if you had parents. I can't tell from your comments about your relationship with your mother?
during this thread i mentioned multiple times that it is my opinion that christianity is stupid, not the people who believe it, and that is what really confuses me. opposition viewpoints like hapablap and jetstorm and mikethetiger69 are intelligent and well stated. i respect the people, but i think thier beliefs are moronic, most of them don't seem to mind. but if you want to be a crybaby, be my guest. i could tone down my opinions in order to save your feelings from my "attitude", but i won't. i wish you luck managing your fragile emotions.
