New Arizona Immigration Enforcement Laws

And secure the damn border.

 

The reason I keep pushing it is that I don't feel that the supporters of the AZ laws really make the connection that attacking demand is also attacking supply. Illegals will be identified in the process and can be dealt with accordingly. The sacrifices of civil liberties demanded on about a third of AZ's US citizens without trying the demand solution first is way too high a price. I repeat what I said before. I see the words, but I see no passion for attacking demand, but I do see passion for attacking supply and and lo and behold, that's the public policy we get. I guess I will keep saying it as long as we don't attack demand and whenever someone asks what else could we possibly do?

 

The don't give a damn statement is hyperbole, but I do think that many are more interested in punishing the illegals than implementing effective policy. It's important to note that we are addressing the supply side already. We're not very effective and we could always do a better job than what we do, but the fundamental question is what is the more effective use of our resourses? Since we're not serious at all about the demand side, we are really doing practically nothing right now.

I believe we could get a huge bang for the buck by focusing there, but even though people keep writing they are for it, I don't see any passion. Politicians will respond to a passionate public and they are...they're going after illegals and they will stomp on citizens rights to do so.

I'm under no illusion that going after demand will be easy. Because we have never done it, and because it might be only one state to start, there are huge startup issues that could be quite unpleasant. You cut off money to illegals already here, some will leave and go home, some will flood other states and some may turn to real crime to survive. Amnesty for both illegals and employers may be required to minimize the chaos.

 

of course he doesnt.

all people are from africa and the idea that one person is "indigenous" to one place and therefore deserves it is ludicrous and racist.

pay attention: you are not your ancestors. you are here or you arent. you dont have a "fatherland" or whatever unless you are nazi or or jew or muslim some other sort of idiot.

i am fine with tpoepl coming to america. but not because they were "here first" or some stupid tribal caveman BS. people thinking like that is what makes the world terrible.

 

Yes and no. Unless illegals are fully employed, your efforts may not have any effect on the number of hours worked by illegals. You're also dealing with diminishing returns when dealing with the supply since we are already working it. For reasons I mentioned previously, supply side efforts may have a very high floor.

At too high a price. Obviously we disagee.

While I'm not going to disagee that demographics may be motivation for some, it's way too cynical to think that is a wide-spread motivation. No US citizen who is not doing anything wrong should ever be detained because he looks illegal. It is utterly naive to think this will not happen. The police are not perfect Gods.

I think it's wrong to blow off the potential price. Consider the issue of racial profiling on air travel. Personally, I think it is justified for real safety reasons. It's unfortunate that innocents must be targeted this way, but that's reality. BUT there must be way for innocents to be certified innocent at no cost to them so that they can discreetly avoid unending embarrassing intrusive scrutiny. If you don't insist on these protections, then all you really care about is making sure middle eastern looking people are perpetually anal probed. Of course everyone will say they are for the protections, but I say show me, git-r-done, and then we'll talk.

If you think things like delaying tactics, ineffective systems, and immaterial penalties are passion, then you are just confirming to me that you are not passionate.

 

http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/0706/p09s01-coop.html
How Eisenhower solved illegal border crossings from Mexico

Interesting article, I know it is a few years old but it still holds true today!
Quote:
Donald Coppock, who headed the Patrol from 1960 to 1973, says that if Swing and Ike were still running immigration enforcement, "they'd be on top of this in a minute."

William Chambers, another '50s veteran, agrees. "They could do a pretty good job" sealing the border.

Edwards says: "When we start enforcing the law, these various businesses are, on their own, going to replace their [illegal] workforce with a legal workforce."

While Congress debates building a fence on the border, these veterans say other actions should have higher priority.

1. End the current practice of taking captured Mexican aliens to the border and releasing them. Instead, deport them deep into Mexico, where return to the US would be more costly.

2. Crack down hard on employers who hire illegals. Without jobs, the aliens won't come.

3. End "catch and release" for non-Mexican aliens. It is common for illegal migrants not from Mexico to be set free after their arrest if they promise to appear later before a judge. Few show up.

The Patrol veterans say enforcement could also be aided by a legalized guest- worker program that permits Mexicans to register in their country for temporary jobs in the US. Eisenhower's team ran such a program. It permitted up to 400,000 Mexicans a year to enter the US for various agriculture jobs that lasted for 12 to 52 weeks.

 

while that sounds good and i agree it would be better than border dumps, i am wondering if it could be done. given that mexico seems to have no problem with their citizens coming here, legally or illegally, i wonder if they would allow the cross into mexico and deep into the country for returning illegals.

after all, it would require an american border patrol agent and vehicle, and access might be denied, just from wadded pantie syndrome.

 

Mexico is a very plutocratic country and we're their revolutionary relief valve. They do not want to stop the migration. They may have to play along for appearance reasons, but they would act to keep the flow going.